RIP Warhammer

[Count Von Bruno]

It all just looks like more of the same as far as I'm concerned, overly muscled, "dynamically posed" yadadada.

 

[Mr Papafakis]

I think your being far too kind Bruno

 

[stone cold lead]

It all just looks like more of the same as far as I'm concerned, overly muscled, "dynamically posed" yadadada.

AoS or our complaining?

When it comes to GW it appears 'we' have been bitching about them since around 1985 judging by the letters pages in White Dwarf.

 

[Zhu Bajie]

...the bring what you like play style, does seem to be the most 'Oldhammer' that a commercial company could go.

I get the impression though that whilst Oldhammer promotes a certain freedom from army lists and strict points values, it's also about common sense, balance, fairness and the aesthetic of themed forces, AoS sounds like it's just going to allow anything to constitute an army. I think most of us here wouldn't see 6 dwarves, 12 orcs, 3 Bretonnian knights and a greater demon as being a cohesive force or even aesthetically pleasing but AoS players might. I might be totally wrong but if that is the case then armies might end up looking like little more than random toys thrown together with no creative thought behind them. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out though.

That's exactly what the warbands in our games are like! They are aesthetically themeed and creatively driven, not prescribed by other peoples ideas of what fantasy should be, and certainly nothing to do with the Warhammer Known World.

IMHO this works, and is 100% Oldhammer, in both the spirit and community:

You can't field that in 8th, but you can in 2nd and you can in AoS (maybe).

Look at the forces in McDeath, A halfling a Wizard, a chaos hound, some humans and some orcs. Look at Realms of Chaos, elves and beastmen and (roll d100 here) in the same warband. Slann in a norse army: Legend of Kremlo. Complete mix of types in Magnificent Sven. AoS appears to have some kind of keyword thematic system, so its not as all out bonkers as Oldhammer can be, but the roots of it are there, in the beginnings of things, not in the strictly codified end.

 

[Count Von Bruno]

Hehe, all I can say definitely say is that I know what I like and this <age of sigmar> isn't it, the last (new, as in just released) miniature purchase I made from GW was in 09, which was "the chase"- a squig, a night gobbo and a big squig.

To each his own, nothing does it for me like the good old minis from back in the day- I'm not proclaiming they are BETTER but they are what I like.
I'm only really interested in what I like

*edit: I am very miniature driven, if you let me use my xyz minis that I lovingly painted we can use xyz rules

 

[zoggin-eck]

Hmm. let me see.

Some really fun points. Now that you've mentioned it, it's weird to notice that even on the most modern, AoS detesting "they ruined Warhammer" forums there are a few people saying it sounds kind of fun. Sure enough, they seem to be people already happy to play narrative games who aren't sure what tournaments or "balanced" armies are or why they are needed, or why their unit of ogres can't fight in their Skaven army, for instance. Finally they've put it in print that it doesn't matter what base you use (OK, they did for late 90's Epic 40k, but nobody saw it ) Sadly, most seem concerned about what base size they can now invent to have an advantage.

So far, unless they really do turn-around with later releases, it looks like a simple game that will be supported by setting/background/art/scenario books. A good thing in my eyes, providing they do a decent job. At least a new setting means they might use less re-used art.

Zhu, I do get your feeling about stats tied to models, but if they really are releasing stats for every model from 8th, I'm sure I'll find a fit for everything I own. Oddly, this game may be the easiest yet to squeeze-in every non-citadel model into an army. Probably not the intention, but oh well.

Sadly, as a guilty fan of 4th-onwards Warhammer setting, I'm still sad to see it go. Of course this doesn't affect my current games or armies, but I did love the odd Black Library novel, as bad as I know they are. I will miss them writing more, since it allowed me to "keep my toe in" their world, but I get that the occasional purchase doesn't keep them running I'm not sure I could bring myself to read or buy a book with Orruks, grots and ogors fighting steamhead.... whatever the new dwarfs are.

One more useless point - I really like the box cover! The Sigmar blokes do nothing for me, but the over-the-top art and dorky "Mighty battles in an age of unending war" makes it feel much more like something I would have picked up off the shelf and saved pocket money for as a kid.

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Hmm. let me see.

Some really fun points

Chars! The cover is not my cup of tea at all, but that's just taste. John Blanche's WFB1 and the First Citadel Compendium covers are my high watershed for the kind of grimey fantasy art I associate with Warhammer, but then you'll find me in the Francis Bacon gallery rather than the Neoclassicals. Which reminds me - PM incoming!

You're right about customising tho, without having to calculate PVs it's really easy to create new "Warscrolls", just find the right weapon type and racial type and bang, you're done. Heck, even creating your own weapons is just a matter of deciding how it should work. Adding rules for pushbacks, flanks, rear attacks and all that is trivial, an additional A4 sheet listing modifiers and 'hey, would you like to try a bit more tactical combat?". Modular Blood!

One thing that occurred to me is the flying hammers that the Sigmarites have, I'm pretty sure it was one of the first magic items Bryan Ansell wrote up for OD&D, or maybe it was in one of the citadel flyers, I forget and can't be arsed to look for it. so will just post this as evidence:

The more I look at it the more I'm convinced GWHQ have arrived at AoS by going back to its roots and building up from there rather than trimming and pruning the growth as the last 8 incarnations did.

 

[area23]

Bitching about GW is legit Oldhammer too. I don't understand why some people on FB get so worked up about people bashing the Evil Empire when other people mention it, on the Oldhammer page...

 

[zoggin-eck]

Chars! The cover is not my cup of tea at all, but that's just taste. John Blanche's WFB1 and the First Citadel Compendium covers are my high watershed for the kind of grimey fantasy art I associate with Warhammer, but then you'll find me in the Francis Bacon gallery rather than the Neoclassicals.

Ah, I do much prefer a Blanche cover (Only GW art I currently have in my games room is by John), but that's more my tastes now. As a dumb kid, I'd be all over this!

One thing I did think when I first heard of how different it all is, is whether the new books/productions have any of his art at all? I was surprised to see how much has been in, for example the "storm of Magic/everyone can take monsters again" and daemons books.

The more I look at it the more I'm convinced GWHQ have arrived at AoS by going back to its roots and building up from there rather than trimming and pruning the growth as the last 8 incarnations did.

I would love to know the rationale, and not in a "how did they make it so bad" way I've heard many say. Same goes for names in the credits.*

* Oh I would love to see "Dedicated to Phil Barker, Donald Featherstone and Michael Moorcock whose fault it all is"

 

[dieselmonkey]

Bitching about GW is legit Oldhammer too. I don't understand why some people on FB get so worked up about people bashing the Evil Empire when other people mention it, on the Oldhammer page...

Why? Because some of the people who built that company are on there, as well as current creative employees.

Calling people a c*nt by proxy is still calling them a c*nt.

 

[Aiteal]

I like the ruined buildings though

 

[Asslessman]

Yep same here, though the flaming portals do nothing to me the ruins are excellent it seems and I could totally see some repurposing for either 40k or fantasy, I could picture a fight between red redemptionists and knights of teh cleansing flame around it .

 

[Captain Crooks]

Chaaaaaaaps. Take a look at that rule right there, 'ancient dignity', from the high elves free pdf. Keep an arrogant expression for a turn and earn a small bonus!

 

[Niibl]

The game is full of such rules. Bugman gets his drink bonus only if you are holding a drink. Marius Leitdorf: pretend to ride an imaginary horse and get to-hit rerolls. Talk to that horse and get to-wound rerolls. Hillarious, but not necessarily a bad thing if you aim at new, younger players.
Serious tournament players will have fits though, which is not necessarily a bad thing either.

 

[Lord Chaotl Oml]

Pretty hilarios imo. But maybe the next partygame after spin-the-bottle...

 

[Niibl]

Imagine a birthday party for 10 year olds. No stupid paper hats but fake mustaches and dwarf beards, grail cup and tankards to drink from, silly quotes and gestures, dancing while dicing etc. That could keep the horde busy for a while. Sounds like it is on the near same level as trolls in the pantry though.

 

[stone cold lead]

Nicked from an anonymous reply to a review of AoS on Tale of Painters blog

But now the wider rules are up, GW has got back its sense of humour?

Ok, so they can't write wargames rules for toffee. But check out some of the new AoS rules...

Kairos: once per game change a roll to a result of your choice.

Screaming Bell: Roll 2D6 on a chart of effects. On a 13 you win.

Screaming bell: roll two dice, cannot be modified in any way. If you roll a 13 you get:

Improbable Victory!: Against all probability and reason, you immediately win the battle (and are hereafter branded a cheat – not that that should bother a true skaven general).

If Greasus Goldtooth uses this ability, select an enemy unit anywhere on the battlefield and choose one of the effects listed below:
- The unit cannot move in its next turn.
- The unit cannot move, attack or cast spells in its next turn.
- All models in the unit immediately flee.
- The unit changes sides and immediately comes under your control.
Then, offer your opponent a bribe (this can be anything you want to offer). If your opponent accepts your bribe, the chosen effect takes place – otherwise, nothing happens. Players are free to haggle over the offered bribe, or propose a counter-offer...

Mortarch of Night: If it is nighttime, or you cannot see the sun, you can add 1 to all hit and wound rolls for Gheistvor.

"Ancient Dignity:
Dragons are ancient and prideful creatures, and the Elves that ride them are no less haughty, but from such nobility and dignity stems an inner strength. If, during your entire hero phase, you can maintain a dignified (even arrogant) composure and not smile, smirk or laugh regardless of your opponent’s antics, you may re-roll all hit rolls of 1 made for models in a Dragon Host until your next hero phase"

The Endless Dance: If you are dancing while rolling the dice for the Masque’s attacks in the combat phase, you can reroll any failed hit rolls. If, at any point, you can coerce your opponent to join in, you can re-roll any failed wound rolls as well.

Lord of Forbidden Pleasure:
It is wise not to gaze long upon the splendour of a Lord of Slaanesh, lest terrible notions begin to form. If an enemy unit finishes its pile in move within 3" of a Lord of Slaanesh, you can tell your opponent that they are in danger of being beguiled. From that point on, if your opponent looks you in the eye before the unit has made its hit rolls for that combat phase, subtract 1 from any of those rolls which target this model.

Pride of the Reiksguard: Helborg’s skill is as legendary as his moustache is magnificent. You can re-roll any failed hit rolls when attacking with the Runefang so long as you have a bigger and more impressive moustache than your opponent

Bloodwrack Stare: When making a Bloodwrack Stare attack, pick a visible unit within range and roll a dice for each model in that unit; for each roll of 6 or more that unit suffers a mortal wound as they foolishly meet the Medusa’s deadly gaze. You can add 1 to these dice rolls if, between the time you declare the target of the attack and time you roll the dice, your opponent looks you directly in the*eye.

"One Bat Short of a Belfry -
Konrad is a violent lunatic, and his temper does little to help his stretched sanity. If, during your hero phase, you talk to Konrad von Carstein, you can re-roll all hit rolls of 1 for him until your next hero phase. If Konrad von Carstein talks back to you, re-roll all failed hit rolls instead."

The Mad Count:
Marius Leitdorf is an
exceptional swordsman, even if he is totally insane. If, during your hero phase, you pretend to ride an imaginary horse, you can re-roll failed hit rolls for the Averland Runefang until your next hero phase. If you actually talk to your imaginary horse you can re-roll failed wound rolls as well.

Oh...

 

[Mr Papafakis]

I laughed my arse off reading that Stone Cold

You know something, if a totally new game company tried to release this game, they wouldn't even be able to give it away! It's just a silly piss take

 

[stone cold lead]

I laughed my arse off reading that Stone Cold

You know something, if a totally new game company tried to release this game, they wouldn't even be able to give it away! It's just a silly piss take

Probably fun after the pub...

Once!

 

[stone cold lead]

I'm not seeing these abilities listed on the Warscrolls Compendiums for the old armies on GW's site. Anyone know where they're from? Have we been had?!