Pygmies, Stereotyping and all that.

[Erny]

Lots of points here.

While I broadly agree with you Asslessman the bigotry that the Irish have been subjected to, at least within the UK does amount to more than your average spoof of other European stereotypes. They were a colony and an oppressed majority in their own country for a long time. Signs reading, "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" were prevalent in London even as late as the 60's.

I'm not sure antisemitism does apply to all Semites. A person who is pro-palistinian for example is often labeled an antisemite. I agree with the words meaning all Semites just not the practice. I see a similarity but not a sameness between the Assyrian CD and the cartoon. We do after all have comedy celtic elves and Norse dwraves why not Assyrian CD. Combining Assyrian fashion and Dwarvish looks accounts for the overall look.


TOVB

Utopia is impossible but I don't think our society has developed to the stage where we have let go of the racist rubbish. It is still very prevalent so we do still need to be on guard and continue to oppose it. If we stop now I fear we may just adopt all the lazy habits once more.

 

[Asslessman]

While I broadly agree with you Asslessman the bigotry that the Irish have been subjected to, at least within the UK does amount to more than your average spoof of other European stereotypes. They were a colony and an oppressed majority in their own country for a long time. Signs reading, "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" were prevalent in London even as late as the 60's.

I should have thought of this (I've been living and working in Ireland for 3 months a few years back). It is indeed a very different thing and it proves things vary grandly depending on where you look at thing from. May irish members excuse my undelicateness of writing quicker than I think...

 

[Orjetax]

Ok, I'll bite -
Folks keep bringing up chaos dwarves. What are they meant to/what do they seem to some to represent?

I'm not familiar with their background.

I've inferred that some think they're reminiscent of Jews? Assyrians? Semitic peoples generally?
Is this just a 'chaos dwarves have coarse hair!' thing?

Incidentally I loved the articles posted previously re: Tolkien's dwarves and Jews. I don't find his depiction anti-Semitic. Few would, I think. Things can be informed by a group's experience or culture, and if they aren't meant to malign or perpetuate stereotypes, that's ok to me. I raise my eyebrow at Tolkien's "war-like" and "love of the artefact" comments. The truth is that those comments are susceptible of a not-so-innocent reading and an innocent one. Without more context I'm hesitant to judge.

 

[theottovonbismark]

Lots of points here.

They were a colony and an oppressed majority in their own country for a long time. Signs reading, "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish" were prevalent in London even as late as the 60's.
...
...

TOVB

Utopia is impossible but I don't think our society has developed to the stage where we have let go of the racist rubbish. It is still very prevalent so we do still need to be on guard and continue to oppose it. If we stop now I fear we may just adopt all the lazy habits once more.

AND YET DOGS CONTINUE TO BE OPPRESSED IN PUBS AND RESTAURANTS ALL OVER THE WORLD !


In terms of Utopia I agree with you, it is indeed, a long way to go yet. The price of freedom is vigilance and all that.


@ Asslessman - you big racist cheese-eating-surrender-monkey!

 

[Chico]

@ Asslessman - you big racist cheese-eating-surrender-monkey!

How did you know that was my sexy time name for Mr Ass?!

 

[Asslessman]

@ Asslessman - you big racist cheese-eating-surrender-monkey!

I'm not a monkey !

 

[Zhu Bajie]

I'm not a monkey !

I thought this was you?

A giant arseless space monkey ork!

 

[theottovonbismark]

I'm not a monkey !

I thought this was you?



A giant arseless space monkey ork!

Where on earth did you get that picture, it's awesome! I think my World Waaagh II Orkses are getting a new flag soon.

Cheese-eating-giant-arseless-surrender-space-monkey-ork! You now have your own ethnicity JB.

 

[Erny]

AND YET DOGS CONTINUE TO BE OPPRESSED IN PUBS AND RESTAURANTS ALL OVER THE WORLD !

I am guilty of holding Doggist views. I would always employ a human over a dog . Equally I would never consider dating a dog or buying a used car from one, I also think they have disgusting habits and have it on good authority they poo in the streets. That said I find Dogging a cruel and unusual sport, I'm not sure what it is about your average Watfordonian that makes it so prevalent there.

 

[Count Von Bruno]

This is a really interesting thread, and the articles posted in it.
The whole Tolkien thing had never crossed my mind before, nor had the imagery of the big hat Chaos Dwarfs.

It sounds stupid (I mean, I'm ignorant )but I had always sort of assumed racism was a white/ anglo saxon thing-yet the more people from different ethnicities and countries I meet the further from the truth that assumption was.
The 60 or so Cambodians I worked with for a few years pretty much all hated Vietnamese and Thais (and picked on the couple of them there mercilessly)
The dozen or so Koreans I've worked/been friends with openly said they hated the Chinese, as did Indians
Maoris I've known seem to have a low opinion of Tongans and Samoans...

I can't help but think "everybody" is bloody rascist!

 

[Asslessman]

add some more for my Polish origins, add a beard and take the will to invade Europe away and you're getting close, the hands are actually spot on considerng my skills with a fret saw and modelling knife...

@Theottovonbismark : you may have come across them but Goblinlee has this very excellent wehrmacht space ork army matching this tone...

@Bruno, I'm not far from thinking the same, forgetting real life with fantasy stuff is one cure...

 

[Erny]

I work in human genetics and for a long time I worked in a group of five people where I was the only non-chinese. This was in Cambridge but most chatting went on in Chinese. They had a nick name for me, which was fine everyone gets nick names.

One day we had a delivery of primate DNA to use as a comparison to our various human samples, at the time I worked in evolutionary genetics. One of my friends was busy telling me the Chinese for each primate species we have DNA for, I often got language lesson it was good fun. Then we came to the gorilla DNA and I recognize the name. Next time my nick name came up I mentioned that I wasn't a gorilla. There were some very embarrassed faces and one colleague confessed there nick name for me meant clumsy gorilla, the general idea being I was big hairy and clumsy. It was a race thing and it did feel odd albeit a one off not so very terrible experience for me thankfully. We did remain friends and actually started chatting in English most of the time. Yes anybody can be racist and yes it can be directed at anybody.

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Where on earth did you get that picture, it's awesome! I think my World Waaagh II Orkses are getting a new flag soon.

It's a WWI recruitment poster by Australian artist Norman Lindsay, he has quite an interesting body of work, including political cartoons that might be seen to be a bit "old-fashioned". Bloody great drawing, reminds me of Jack Kirby at his best. Possibly an original 'source' for the Space Orks?

 

[Asslessman]

The fact you remained friends actually means racism has a cure called intelligence.

 

[ardyer]

The fact you remained friends actually means racism has a cure called intelligence.

That or there was just no one else for him too eat lunch with

 

[theottovonbismark]

Where on earth did you get that picture, it's awesome! I think my World Waaagh II Orkses are getting a new flag soon.

It's a WWI recruitment poster by Australian artist Norman Lindsay, he has quite an interesting body of work, including political cartoons that might be seen to be a bit "old-fashioned". Bloody great drawing, reminds me of Jack Kirby at his best. Possibly an original 'source' for the Space Orks?

You could be right on it being an original source, it is pretty damn space ork looking to me. It will make a fine banner on a battlewagon once I nick it and bully the grot artists into kustomizin it a bit with a waaagh symbol instead of that stoopid 'oomie symbol for confuzion.


Then I should check out the rest of his oeuvre for potential banners


@ Asslessman - What is it with me and Goblinlee, I would have assumed that the chance that two people have buckets of Slann and WWII Orks must be pretty low!

 

[theottovonbismark]

"Then I should check out the rest of his oeuvre for potential banners "

Or maybe not, he seems to be pretty obsessed with painting naked females rather than naked orks, the wierdo!

He is definately not safe for work

 

[Count Von Bruno]

The fact you remained friends actually means racism has a cure called intelligence.

Touche'.

 

[Flippa]

I think some of you got the points I was trying to make. Thing is you're always going to offend some people, whichever way you do anything... Whether it be racism, sexism, crudeness or just generally vile behaviour. I for one have made my feelings known about JB and other boy bands and no I was not trying to draw any kind of similarities between the oppression of Africans nor any other ethnic group by the colonials who choose to reside there. Stereotypes happen for a reason and whilst tragic and oft inhumane most have elements of truth about said stereotypes.

I'm in no way shape or form racist and believe everyone should be given an equal chance in life, maybe because of my inability to see certain things as racist I contribute towards an oppressive society and if that's true then I'm truly sorry. I laugh at all forms of humour whether it's jewish, muslim, christian (religious) or ethnic origin, even country based humour irish, german, spanish etc. I have friends from all corners of the world, of all colours and creeds and shapes and sizes. I consider myself lucky in the friends that I have.

All this does make me chuckle... with the amount of dross on TV/Film that perpetuates racist/sexist behaviour the only time it ever gets mentioned is when it's against certain ethnic/religious groups or women. It's these double standards that need to be addressed before any real progress can be made.

 

[theottovonbismark]

I agree with you Flippa. There are plenty of instances of prejudiced thinking alive and kicking. One has to understand that it's a constant struggle against prejudicial thinking in all human society rather than believing that "we will all get there one day".

This is one of the most personally offensive things I have ever encountered. I saw these for sale in none other than the home of the free itself, the U.S.A. There is no outcry about this racial stereotyping apparently.