zoggin-eck
Vassal
Harry":3v0kpw34 said:
I've done similar for normal battles, imagining the battlefield we're playing on is a clearing in the mist, with anything off the table too hard to shoot at.
Oldhammer Ahoy
- Thread starter Harry
- Start date
I've done similar for normal battles, imagining the battlefield we're playing on is a clearing in the mist, with anything off the table too hard to shoot at.
Harry
Baron
Exactly so .... its a big ocean with I fight going on in the middle .... Ships pass through and then turn round for another swing .... the fight is the interesting bit .... not the turning around. Here however the problem is the sheer number of boats .... will we be able to move at all. 
So I have been loving all these posts about starting points.
I am going to show you mine .... slightly embarrassed because I have a bit more stuff than everyone else .... but I have been thinking about this for a while now and picking up stuff whenever I see it going cheap for a number of years.
I have some scenery I can use as a starting point for islands:
I have some sea monsters:
I have a dinosaur type thing:
I have a sinking ship .... old Flagship Games model .... somewhere around here I have their sub marines too! Very cool.
I have some little rowing boats:
I have one of these:
and one of these:
I have one of these:
and one of these:
I also have this Norse ship ... Not sure who made it:
But it came with a crew:
So I have been loving all these posts about starting points.
I am going to show you mine .... slightly embarrassed because I have a bit more stuff than everyone else .... but I have been thinking about this for a while now and picking up stuff whenever I see it going cheap for a number of years.
I have some scenery I can use as a starting point for islands:
I have some sea monsters:
I have a dinosaur type thing:
I have a sinking ship .... old Flagship Games model .... somewhere around here I have their sub marines too! Very cool.
I have some little rowing boats:
I have one of these:
and one of these:
I have one of these:
and one of these:
I also have this Norse ship ... Not sure who made it:
But it came with a crew:
Warlord Paul
Vassal
Woah, nice one Harry!
I guess if we commandeer the table that was used for the siege game we could fit everything on well enough, but are we competing for that table with anyone so far?
I guess if we commandeer the table that was used for the siege game we could fit everything on well enough, but are we competing for that table with anyone so far?
Warlord Paul
Vassal
Snickit":1d2itgdj said:
Actually that's possibly right. I hadn't thought of that one being big enough because it was covered over with miscellaneous bits of gaming paraphernalia but it was pretty large. Maybe a limitation on flat surfaces though? Worth just a polite mention somewhere that we would like to reserve the space/table?
whiskey priest
Baron
I actually think it was a similar size to the siege table but if I remember rightly it wasn't rectangular but was slightly hexagonal.
Fimm McCool
Lord
Harry":airdn4v4 said:
Harry, I've seen your gaming room. You have one of EVERYTHING!
James Holloway
Vassal
Harry, those rowers look like older Gripping Beast sculpts. That being the case, the ship probably came from them as well.
Harry
Baron
They were two identical tables .... neither were rectangular both had flat ends but curved (bulges) in the sides. These tables were a stretch to reach the middle ... so they must have been about 6ftx12ft.
Normal move for a boat is about 1ft ... bit more if you push it. So it is still going to take a few moves to get across the table even on the short edge. The table is plenty big enough for a game ... it will just et a bit tight if everything posted on here is put on the table at the same time.
Normal move for a boat is about 1ft ... bit more if you push it. So it is still going to take a few moves to get across the table even on the short edge. The table is plenty big enough for a game ... it will just et a bit tight if everything posted on here is put on the table at the same time.
ChaosChild
Serf
Those tables are over 12' long and average 6' wide (a bit wider in the middle). I think they'll give us enough room to maneuver.
weazil
Moderator
Bryan mentioned to me that the two 6x12's were actually part of the same table - but I don't know how they connect with each other. I assume the two combined will create a huge square with a gap in the centre (suitable for conferences, I presume). We could always ask if you really think you need something larger than a 6x12?
ChaosChild: Could you verify that?
ChaosChild: Could you verify that?
Warlord Paul
Vassal
That table is probably big enough Weazil, all things considered, I was just concerned about reserving it as so many ideas are bubbling around for next year already! I am sure things will work out just fine though, they usually do.
Fimm McCool
Lord
So my most recent thought on this is... how about having a couple of beaches set in the board representing islands, but instead of having land inside the ring of beach they have-
a gap so someone can pop up in the middle of the table for easy access to ships too far in from the edge for comfortable reach?
We could model some interesting island dioramas and use them as hatch covers to preserve the look of the board when access from them isn't needed. Heck, they could even be landed upon by small craft, perhaps contain treasure and the like.
a gap so someone can pop up in the middle of the table for easy access to ships too far in from the edge for comfortable reach?
We could model some interesting island dioramas and use them as hatch covers to preserve the look of the board when access from them isn't needed. Heck, they could even be landed upon by small craft, perhaps contain treasure and the like.
Coopdevil
Vassal
Shoot them down if you will, but here are my ideas on a ruleset for playing out the proposed Oldhammer Ahoy! game. Admittedly nobody asked for this, it's just that I started thinking about rules while painting little mans over the Bank Holiday weekend and was aware that there were several different rules proposals floating around.
I've written a fair few "one page" rulesets for show/convention participation games over the years so this is the sort of thing I'd knock up if I were organising a game. This is intended for a game where individual models are present on ships (no roster keeping or anything like that) and boarding actions the norm (using WFB3).
I just offer this as perhaps a starting point for a forum-derived set of rules.
Totally unplaytested!
Feedback solicitated and desired!
(In the below textdump TBD means I haven't decided yet - usually refers to numeric values. All numeric values liable to change.)
OLDHAMMAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!
SHIPS
Ships come in three sizes - S, M and L. (Real world dimensions TBD).
Ship counts as two structures each with T and W. These are SAILS and HULL (Values TBD).
Crew and gun (or other large "Machinery of Destruction") capacity follows the Ork Battlewagon rule - any many as you can get in it (upright) and any that fall off during the game are lost to sea. No taking the piss with glued in models or magnets or filing bases down to wedge models in place.
There is no distinction made between crew roles, so no split between marines and those required to run the ship. Everybody can steer a ship, fight and man the guns.
Two crew models are required to fire a gun.
Two crew models are required to steer a ship (four for L). Ships without adequate crew become derelict.
WIND
Wind points to one of 8 directions (like Blood Bowl scatter diagram). At the start of each turn, a 6 on d6 changes it to another random heading.
I've written a fair few "one page" rulesets for show/convention participation games over the years so this is the sort of thing I'd knock up if I were organising a game. This is intended for a game where individual models are present on ships (no roster keeping or anything like that) and boarding actions the norm (using WFB3).
I just offer this as perhaps a starting point for a forum-derived set of rules.
Totally unplaytested!
Feedback solicitated and desired!
(In the below textdump TBD means I haven't decided yet - usually refers to numeric values. All numeric values liable to change.)
OLDHAMMAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!
SHIPS
Ships come in three sizes - S, M and L. (Real world dimensions TBD).
Ship counts as two structures each with T and W. These are SAILS and HULL (Values TBD).
Crew and gun (or other large "Machinery of Destruction") capacity follows the Ork Battlewagon rule - any many as you can get in it (upright) and any that fall off during the game are lost to sea. No taking the piss with glued in models or magnets or filing bases down to wedge models in place.
There is no distinction made between crew roles, so no split between marines and those required to run the ship. Everybody can steer a ship, fight and man the guns.
Two crew models are required to fire a gun.
Two crew models are required to steer a ship (four for L). Ships without adequate crew become derelict.
WIND
Wind points to one of 8 directions (like Blood Bowl scatter diagram). At the start of each turn, a 6 on d6 changes it to another random heading.
Coopdevil
Vassal
TURN ORDER
- Check for Wind change
- Initiative (d6)
- Movement Phase, one ship from initiative winning side then one ship from initiative losing side, and so on. Any ship can fire (once) at any point during Movement, theirs or the enemies. For larger games move two or three ships instead.
- Firing Phase. Any ship that has not fired so far this turn may fire.
- Boarding Actions Phase (basically one round of melee)
- End Phase - Derelict movement, Fires and the like.
MOVEMENT
Ships only have 8 headings (again, like BB scatter diagram). At all times a ship must be either
- parallel to table edge or
- at 45 degrees to table edge
No other angle is permitted. All turns are made in complete 45 degree increments. If a ship is left with ambigious heading, the other side get to move it up to 45 degrees to conform to a legal heading of their choice.
Speed depends upon angle to the wind. There are only three possibilities - INTO THE WIND, WITH THE WIND, or OTHER.
INTO THE WIND - Heading straight into it (like a head-on ram)
WITH THE WIND - Wind directly behind and in the same direction (like two cars in the same lane heading in same direction) and
OTHER - At 45 or 90 degrees to wind, direction of travel unimportant.
Maximum Movements (S/M/L)
INTO THE WIND - No movement possible, must tack if wanting to move (turn 45 degrees and zig-zag)
WITH THE WIND - (18"/12"/6")
OTHER - (12"/6"/6")
Backing is at half speed
Derelicts move in the END PHASE and move d6" directly forwards unless INTO THE WIND where they move d6" backwards.
Ships that hit islands, beaches, reefs etc. run aground and are stranded. They may still fire weapons.
Ships not wind-powered ignore the wind and always move at OTHER rate.
TURNING
Depends upon class
L - May turn once at start of movement
M - May turn once at any point of movement
S - May turn twice at any point of movement, second turn must be at least 1" after first turn.
If no space to complete the turn without moving other ships then you can't do it.
- Check for Wind change
- Initiative (d6)
- Movement Phase, one ship from initiative winning side then one ship from initiative losing side, and so on. Any ship can fire (once) at any point during Movement, theirs or the enemies. For larger games move two or three ships instead.
- Firing Phase. Any ship that has not fired so far this turn may fire.
- Boarding Actions Phase (basically one round of melee)
- End Phase - Derelict movement, Fires and the like.
MOVEMENT
Ships only have 8 headings (again, like BB scatter diagram). At all times a ship must be either
- parallel to table edge or
- at 45 degrees to table edge
No other angle is permitted. All turns are made in complete 45 degree increments. If a ship is left with ambigious heading, the other side get to move it up to 45 degrees to conform to a legal heading of their choice.
Speed depends upon angle to the wind. There are only three possibilities - INTO THE WIND, WITH THE WIND, or OTHER.
INTO THE WIND - Heading straight into it (like a head-on ram)
WITH THE WIND - Wind directly behind and in the same direction (like two cars in the same lane heading in same direction) and
OTHER - At 45 or 90 degrees to wind, direction of travel unimportant.
Maximum Movements (S/M/L)
INTO THE WIND - No movement possible, must tack if wanting to move (turn 45 degrees and zig-zag)
WITH THE WIND - (18"/12"/6")
OTHER - (12"/6"/6")
Backing is at half speed
Derelicts move in the END PHASE and move d6" directly forwards unless INTO THE WIND where they move d6" backwards.
Ships that hit islands, beaches, reefs etc. run aground and are stranded. They may still fire weapons.
Ships not wind-powered ignore the wind and always move at OTHER rate.
TURNING
Depends upon class
L - May turn once at start of movement
M - May turn once at any point of movement
S - May turn twice at any point of movement, second turn must be at least 1" after first turn.
If no space to complete the turn without moving other ships then you can't do it.
Coopdevil
Vassal
FIRING
Any ship may fire once per turn with guns, and once per turn with crew missiles (bows etc.)
All fire is effectively overwatch, it may be declared at any point during movement phase and enemy vessels temporarily "freeze" in spot while firing is resolved. Firing is undertaken in the order in which it is declared, randomise order if any ambiguity. If crew have missiles you basically get two "overwatch" shots per turn, guns and crew missiles.
Markers to be placed by ships as they fire (cotton wool for guns etc.)
Once all ships have moved, all ships that have not yet fired get to do so. This is simultaneous.
Firers must be able to see at least half of the target.
Fire Arcs
Crew Missiles - 360 degrees
Bow/Stern guns - a fire lane as wide as the width of the hull (without oars etc.) projected directly forwards.
Broadside guns - a fire lane as wide as the length of the hull (without rams, figureheads, rudders etc.) projectly directly to the side.
Crew missiles fire at enemy crew in usual WFB fashion. S/M ships offer soft cover, L ships and armoured ironclads hard cover. Ignore morale.
TBD - Fire arrows? Instead of crew missiles being targetted at enemy crew?
Guns fire using traditional WFB rules. But there should be penalty for firing below your size class. Hence L ships have a penalty shooting at M, and a larger one still at S. (I'm thinking Battletech here where light Mechs survive because their heavier enemies find it difficult to hit them and more to their benefit to concentrate on the big ones).
Hits from guns are randomised
1,2 - Sails/Rigging (or other means of propulsion - magic engines, towing sea creatures etc.)
3,4 - Crew
5,6 - Hull
Crew are as you would expect. Note that crew losses might cause the ship to become derelict.
SAILS and HULL both have T and W (values TBD) dependent upon size of ship.
When SAILS are lost, ship is derelict. When SAILS are at half W ship movement detoriates to that of the next largest class ship.
When HULL is lost, ship is SINKING. When HULL is at half W ship movement detoriates to that of the next largest class ship.
Should ships have to fire at nearest target? With option to ignore nearest target if it is smaller than your class?
Any ship may fire once per turn with guns, and once per turn with crew missiles (bows etc.)
All fire is effectively overwatch, it may be declared at any point during movement phase and enemy vessels temporarily "freeze" in spot while firing is resolved. Firing is undertaken in the order in which it is declared, randomise order if any ambiguity. If crew have missiles you basically get two "overwatch" shots per turn, guns and crew missiles.
Markers to be placed by ships as they fire (cotton wool for guns etc.)
Once all ships have moved, all ships that have not yet fired get to do so. This is simultaneous.
Firers must be able to see at least half of the target.
Fire Arcs
Crew Missiles - 360 degrees
Bow/Stern guns - a fire lane as wide as the width of the hull (without oars etc.) projected directly forwards.
Broadside guns - a fire lane as wide as the length of the hull (without rams, figureheads, rudders etc.) projectly directly to the side.
Crew missiles fire at enemy crew in usual WFB fashion. S/M ships offer soft cover, L ships and armoured ironclads hard cover. Ignore morale.
TBD - Fire arrows? Instead of crew missiles being targetted at enemy crew?
Guns fire using traditional WFB rules. But there should be penalty for firing below your size class. Hence L ships have a penalty shooting at M, and a larger one still at S. (I'm thinking Battletech here where light Mechs survive because their heavier enemies find it difficult to hit them and more to their benefit to concentrate on the big ones).
Hits from guns are randomised
1,2 - Sails/Rigging (or other means of propulsion - magic engines, towing sea creatures etc.)
3,4 - Crew
5,6 - Hull
Crew are as you would expect. Note that crew losses might cause the ship to become derelict.
SAILS and HULL both have T and W (values TBD) dependent upon size of ship.
When SAILS are lost, ship is derelict. When SAILS are at half W ship movement detoriates to that of the next largest class ship.
When HULL is lost, ship is SINKING. When HULL is at half W ship movement detoriates to that of the next largest class ship.
Should ships have to fire at nearest target? With option to ignore nearest target if it is smaller than your class?
Coopdevil
Vassal
COLLISIONS/BOARDING ACTIONS
When a ships strikes another, the captain may declare it a BOARDING ACTION. Otherwise it is a COLLISION. BOARDING ACTIONS may not be declared against friendly ships (Animosity might change that though...)
Two ships that board are lashed together and immediately stop. They may not move until the boarding action if resolved (they may still "activate" and fire guns on the other side though).
In a BOARDING ACTION, the boarders count as charging, the defenders as defending an obstacle. The boarders declare how many of their crew (and which ones) they will use in the action.
If defenders lose combat and fail a Rout test they are removed (surrendered, massacred, leapt overboard, walked the plank etc.) Boarders may take charge of this ship assuming they have enough models to crew it, or can scuttle it (takes one turn) in which case it begins SINKING.
If boarders lose combat and fail a Rout test they retreat to their ship. The defender may now ungrapple (in preparation to move next turn) or launch their own boarding attack which will be resolved next turn.
COLLISIONS
Damage to each ship, modified by size class, presence of ram, angle of attack, potential top speed of striking ship etc. All damage to hull.
FIRES
All TBD
I was thinking that any attack with fire arrows or an attack that is either using gunpowder/fire or on a target that uses it might cause a fire on 6 on d6.
Each fire is rolled for in end phase. On a 6 it is extinguished. Each 5 models on board that do nothing else in that turn add +1 to the result. Otherwise it does random damage to 1-3 Sails, 4-6 Hull. (Amount TBD). On a 1 it spreads and spawns another. Each fire to be represented with a large black cotton wool marker.
I don't want fire to be the deciding factor. This is about getting stuck in and boarding not Fireball-sniping ships from over the horizon!
The other option is for a critical hit table of some form with fire being a possible result on it.
SINKING SHIPS
Sinking Ships remain in place and block LOS for
S - d3 rounds
M - d6 rounds
L - 2d6 rounds
During this time any COLLISION with a ship of equal size removes it with no damage to that ship. COLLISION with a smaller ship damages that smaller ship as normal.
LAND TARGETS
Forts, gun emplacements etc. might offer hard/soft cover to models inside. Otherwise they have T and W in the usual fashion and hits on them from guns are split 1-3 Crew, 4-6 Building. Fires affect them normally. Once all W have been lost, the target is knocked out/collapses/strikes its colours.
Ships that can touch landing jetties and the like can stop immediately and their crew can either charge straight into melee with "landlubbers" or advance at usual rate per turn.
MAGIC
Totally TBD. Worried about this dominating the game though. Maybe spells dished out in scenario specific fashion?
When a ships strikes another, the captain may declare it a BOARDING ACTION. Otherwise it is a COLLISION. BOARDING ACTIONS may not be declared against friendly ships (Animosity might change that though...)
Two ships that board are lashed together and immediately stop. They may not move until the boarding action if resolved (they may still "activate" and fire guns on the other side though).
In a BOARDING ACTION, the boarders count as charging, the defenders as defending an obstacle. The boarders declare how many of their crew (and which ones) they will use in the action.
If defenders lose combat and fail a Rout test they are removed (surrendered, massacred, leapt overboard, walked the plank etc.) Boarders may take charge of this ship assuming they have enough models to crew it, or can scuttle it (takes one turn) in which case it begins SINKING.
If boarders lose combat and fail a Rout test they retreat to their ship. The defender may now ungrapple (in preparation to move next turn) or launch their own boarding attack which will be resolved next turn.
COLLISIONS
Damage to each ship, modified by size class, presence of ram, angle of attack, potential top speed of striking ship etc. All damage to hull.
FIRES
All TBD
I was thinking that any attack with fire arrows or an attack that is either using gunpowder/fire or on a target that uses it might cause a fire on 6 on d6.
Each fire is rolled for in end phase. On a 6 it is extinguished. Each 5 models on board that do nothing else in that turn add +1 to the result. Otherwise it does random damage to 1-3 Sails, 4-6 Hull. (Amount TBD). On a 1 it spreads and spawns another. Each fire to be represented with a large black cotton wool marker.
I don't want fire to be the deciding factor. This is about getting stuck in and boarding not Fireball-sniping ships from over the horizon!
The other option is for a critical hit table of some form with fire being a possible result on it.
SINKING SHIPS
Sinking Ships remain in place and block LOS for
S - d3 rounds
M - d6 rounds
L - 2d6 rounds
During this time any COLLISION with a ship of equal size removes it with no damage to that ship. COLLISION with a smaller ship damages that smaller ship as normal.
LAND TARGETS
Forts, gun emplacements etc. might offer hard/soft cover to models inside. Otherwise they have T and W in the usual fashion and hits on them from guns are split 1-3 Crew, 4-6 Building. Fires affect them normally. Once all W have been lost, the target is knocked out/collapses/strikes its colours.
Ships that can touch landing jetties and the like can stop immediately and their crew can either charge straight into melee with "landlubbers" or advance at usual rate per turn.
MAGIC
Totally TBD. Worried about this dominating the game though. Maybe spells dished out in scenario specific fashion?
Golgfag1
Moderator
OK Coop,
As I'm currently looking at various options for the type of race and vessel I'm considering bringing to this bun fight - can I have a Mine-layer (work in the same fashion as cannon but only hitting the hull), on the basis that If I do, I don't take any other large missile weapons (bolt thrower, cannon or stone thrower); or an aircraft carrier on the basis - it's just that after seeing the eight gyro-copters in the army picture section - I thought it might be quite fun to have something similar buzzing around the sky's above the table or even balloons trailing behind my empire ship dropping barrels of napalm from above? All just ideas at the moment - but as others are /were considering submarine type creatures/ swimming giants - I think them worth considering - as others might want something to counter these innovations!
Oh, and can we have flying creatures (harpies and the like) or even flying boats otherwise how are we to hit the ship on the giants head?
All grist to the mill, all grist to the mill
Paul / Golgfag1
As I'm currently looking at various options for the type of race and vessel I'm considering bringing to this bun fight - can I have a Mine-layer (work in the same fashion as cannon but only hitting the hull), on the basis that If I do, I don't take any other large missile weapons (bolt thrower, cannon or stone thrower); or an aircraft carrier on the basis - it's just that after seeing the eight gyro-copters in the army picture section - I thought it might be quite fun to have something similar buzzing around the sky's above the table or even balloons trailing behind my empire ship dropping barrels of napalm from above? All just ideas at the moment - but as others are /were considering submarine type creatures/ swimming giants - I think them worth considering - as others might want something to counter these innovations!
Oh, and can we have flying creatures (harpies and the like) or even flying boats otherwise how are we to hit the ship on the giants head?
All grist to the mill, all grist to the mill
Paul / Golgfag1
Fimm McCool
Lord
This Oldhammer. Is there anything we CAN'T have? 
Edit: Who's buying THESE then? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28mm-Aste...80?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item2594628a04
Edit: Who's buying THESE then?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28mm-Aste...80?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item2594628a04