Citadel Collector
Moderator
Erny":38k27u47 said:
That's one too many asses in a sentence for me...
BOYL The Engines of Avalone Siege game
- Thread starter Thantsants
- Start date
That's one too many asses in a sentence for me...
Asslessman
Member
Citadel Collector":361nvihq said:
Please consider the heavy and incommodating level of salivating around the table if you deicde to bring special items... That said, I wouldn't say no to seeing such a model in real (handcuffs mandatory)...
Won't join this table other than for eye candy but it is definitely looking like a killer.
Mister Rab
Member
If this can be brought together into a coherent, workable game that can be played to a conclusion within the weekend..... Well, be still my beating heart! 
Harry
Moderator
I would also like to get involved in this game as well.
Love a good siege game.
I can bring a fortified manor for the countryside.
(The one in the Warhammer fantasy role-play book as it happens).
(and more mighty fortress bits if needed ... although it sounds like you have this covered).
Love a good siege game.
I can bring a fortified manor for the countryside.
(The one in the Warhammer fantasy role-play book as it happens).
(and more mighty fortress bits if needed ... although it sounds like you have this covered).
Thantsants
Member
Erny":23epup9l said:
Great to have you board Erny - I love all those ideas apart from one small detail - I'm playing another game on Sunday...
Seriously though if everyone is up for this it's going to make for an amazing game and it sounds like between the Friday and Saturday, I'll have gotten my Siege fix. Mind you, I wonder if the Epic game on Sunday could be wrapped up in a morning on the Sunday...
You might be right about strategic time - I'm coming more round to straight forward victory points for a whole range of objectives for both sides.
Welcome aboard too to Snickit, Harry, Citadel Collector and Grumdril. I've updated the first post. I reckon we'll be needing a 12 x 8 ft table so we can all fit round it at this rate!
Harry - are you joining the goodie or the baddies. The fortified manor will make a great objective too
We might even find a use for your Mighty Fortress too!Don't forget to mention whether you want feeding or not - brekkie, lunch or dinner, or all three. I suppose knowing who will be there on Friday would be useful too.
Paul - love the idea of marching across your table to get to the Siege
Nice buildings Rab - definitely come in handy.
I really need to go and paint some Goblins...
Harry
Moderator
Thantsants":3j150yvw said:Harry - are you joining the goodie or the baddies. The fortified manor will make a great objective too
Don't forget to mention whether you want feeding or not - brekkie, lunch or dinner, or all three. I suppose knowing who will be there on Friday would be useful too.
Having read the first post it seems to be mostly baddies....
Perhaps I should focus my painting efforts on finishing up those Brettonians I started painting so you have Lots of infantry to defend the walls and Robin Hood and forty+ merry men as skirmishing archers to take you in the rear.
...and a few knights to sally forth.My Mighty Fortress(s) is(are) not painted so if you need more let me know in plenty of time to get some paint on it. (probably got two and a half sets knocking about here somewhere ... easily enough for a city wall across the table ... and some towny looking houses to go behind it. Just let me know what you need.
I need feeding at least three times a day or I get grumpy.
Still do not know if I will be there on Friday as well as saturday ..... would obviously like to be make it for the start of the game (especially if I am contributing scenery) ... so if I can be there ... I will be.
Thantsants
Member
and Robin Hood and forty+ merry men as skirmishing archers to take you in the rear.
Again with the asses!
Cheers Harry - I'll update the original post.
We'll have to have a think about how many fortress sets we need to stretch along 8/12 ft of table - the wall sections are about 10" long aren't they?
Mister Rab
Member
Oh yes, supplies! If it doesn't confuse things from the whole sign-up thread to come from Gaj, I'd like a lunch and a dinner. Obviously, I'd not turn down a second breakfast as well, but probably don't need one
lenihan
Moderator
Ok, so I reckon I'm going to go evil for this (fimir) and maybe have a bash at building one of the obscurer siege engines in the book.
Thantsants, if you feel that there's too much evil in the world already, and you want me to switch sides, just let me know (in good time, obviously, so I have time to make my preparations).
I'll also bring a small good force of Sea Elves to use first in the "get to the other side" scenario, but I'll try not to confuse myself in the siege by playing on both sides simultaneously!
Thantsants, if you feel that there's too much evil in the world already, and you want me to switch sides, just let me know (in good time, obviously, so I have time to make my preparations).
I'll also bring a small good force of Sea Elves to use first in the "get to the other side" scenario, but I'll try not to confuse myself in the siege by playing on both sides simultaneously!
Thantsants
Member
That's fine mate - the Siege book actually recommends that the besiegers should outnumber the besieged by 2 to 1 anyway.
I'm intrigued to see what you come up with for a siege engine.
I'm intrigued to see what you come up with for a siege engine.
Erny
Member
I’ve checked with Thantsants and he is fine with me posting up my ideas for games. I’ve written these scenarios in a matter of fact way but they are anything but. If you have any ideas let us all know and we can come up with an awesome set of games we all want to play this is just a starting point. To get the ball rolling I present Game 1 Chaos comes! It is a little long winded but ultimately very simple getting peasants and resources inside the city is good for the good side, bad for the bad side.
The aim of this game is to give a brief flavor of the chaos that ensues what an army retreats back to a strong hold and the local population also tries to seek sanctuary behind the walls. The game should be light on figures and very quick to play either on Friday night or early on Saturday morning.
Forces:
The forces of good:
A) Scattered groups of peasants (perhaps use levy stats) attached to farms and hamlets. Say five peasants to a farmstead, ten to a village. (I can supply about 20 old citadel militia armed with clubs, scythes and rusty old swords and an equal number of BTD peasants if we need more). No reason some of the peasants should not be halfings. Peasants will only start to do anything under two circumstances;
1) Elements of the good army (retreating or from the city) approach within 8”, the peasants spend a turn gathering in their crops/livestock and head off for the city. A hero could convince them to form up and defend their homes on a Ld test though who knows if that’s a good idea or not.
2) Elements of the Chaos army approach within 8”, the peasants leave straight away for the city, unless they have already spent a turn gathering in their crops they leave empty handed. A Ld test would allow them to try to defend their homes.
B) The retreating army. Scattered units moving in reasonably good order, some mounted units, some heroes. It would need a leadership test initiated by a hero for a retreating unit to turn and face the enemy, they are trying to get back to the fortress after all. Perhaps the retreating army should have a lowered Ld?
Some elite skirmishing units may well be acting as a guard or picket to the retreating force. I can supply some nice old citadel and foundry empire types, loads if I include my 4th ed stuff though I’ll avoid this if possible. Clearly would love to see whatever anyone else wants to add to this mix.
C) Fast troops sent from the city sent out to organise things. These would be fast troupes that are either elite or well lead. Knights, mounted men at arms with decent champion, mounted heroes, heroes on flying monsters, flying wizards, gyrocopters from the dwarven enginers guild…
D) The evil forces. These would be the fastest troops the Chaos side has, wolf riders, winged daemons, wyvern riders, Boar boys, chariots, centaurs, chaos thugs to knights. Skirmishers will probably fair better. I can provide lots of this but obviously so can lots of you guys.
So what’s up for grabs in this game?
At the end of the game any peasant that entered the city or is still on the board with no enemy within 8” of it or 8” of all entrances to the city is counted for the good side.
Any resource sent from a village or hamlet that entered the city or is still on the board with no enemy within 8” of it or 8” of all entrances to the city is counted for the good side.
Equally any hamlet or farm unoccupied by the good side that did not send its resources back, including those resources on the road but within 8” of an enemy or blocked from the city gates by the enemy is counted towards the evil resource total.
Any Peasant killed by the evil side is counted.
Farms or hamlets that did not send their resources back that are occupied by the good side but have enemies within 8” can elect to destroy the resources to deprive the evil side of a chaos point. Similarly resources on the road accompanied by troops other than peasants can elect to destroy their resource point.
How do these totals affect the game.
For the good side it is twofold:
1) Food, every farm that sends its resources back to the city adds one resource point to the city resource pool. Every hamlet adds 2.
2) Peasants, getting peasants inside the city increases the pool of able bodied men, both to man the walls but also to do the work of putting out fires, shoring up weakened walls, patrolling streets. This leads to good order and a bonus to moral. But naturally not having enough food lessens moral and extra mouths means less food per person. Every 5 peasants equals a manpower point, if there are any remainder peasants 4 also equals a MPP but 3 or less dose not. The total is the
We then work out the moral bonus, matching the resource pool to the man power pool. If the two pools are equal or the resource pool is higher the moral bonus is equal to the manpower pool. If the man power pool is higher the moral bonus will be equal to the resource pool minus the difference between the two pools as the citizens have to tighten their belt further. I have to work out how the moral bonus affects the good side in the second and third battles so any ideas much appreciated. A bonus/penalty to Ld is obvious but may be too much.
For the bad side:
Every resource captured (hamlet resources count as two) is added to the number of (peasants killed/5), this shows the number of extra units the evil side can have on the board during the second siege in progress/sally battle.
hope yo like the looks of this and please post ideas, changes whatever.
The aim of this game is to give a brief flavor of the chaos that ensues what an army retreats back to a strong hold and the local population also tries to seek sanctuary behind the walls. The game should be light on figures and very quick to play either on Friday night or early on Saturday morning.
Forces:
The forces of good:
A) Scattered groups of peasants (perhaps use levy stats) attached to farms and hamlets. Say five peasants to a farmstead, ten to a village. (I can supply about 20 old citadel militia armed with clubs, scythes and rusty old swords and an equal number of BTD peasants if we need more). No reason some of the peasants should not be halfings. Peasants will only start to do anything under two circumstances;
1) Elements of the good army (retreating or from the city) approach within 8”, the peasants spend a turn gathering in their crops/livestock and head off for the city. A hero could convince them to form up and defend their homes on a Ld test though who knows if that’s a good idea or not.
2) Elements of the Chaos army approach within 8”, the peasants leave straight away for the city, unless they have already spent a turn gathering in their crops they leave empty handed. A Ld test would allow them to try to defend their homes.
B) The retreating army. Scattered units moving in reasonably good order, some mounted units, some heroes. It would need a leadership test initiated by a hero for a retreating unit to turn and face the enemy, they are trying to get back to the fortress after all. Perhaps the retreating army should have a lowered Ld?
Some elite skirmishing units may well be acting as a guard or picket to the retreating force. I can supply some nice old citadel and foundry empire types, loads if I include my 4th ed stuff though I’ll avoid this if possible. Clearly would love to see whatever anyone else wants to add to this mix.
C) Fast troops sent from the city sent out to organise things. These would be fast troupes that are either elite or well lead. Knights, mounted men at arms with decent champion, mounted heroes, heroes on flying monsters, flying wizards, gyrocopters from the dwarven enginers guild…
D) The evil forces. These would be the fastest troops the Chaos side has, wolf riders, winged daemons, wyvern riders, Boar boys, chariots, centaurs, chaos thugs to knights. Skirmishers will probably fair better. I can provide lots of this but obviously so can lots of you guys.
So what’s up for grabs in this game?
At the end of the game any peasant that entered the city or is still on the board with no enemy within 8” of it or 8” of all entrances to the city is counted for the good side.
Any resource sent from a village or hamlet that entered the city or is still on the board with no enemy within 8” of it or 8” of all entrances to the city is counted for the good side.
Equally any hamlet or farm unoccupied by the good side that did not send its resources back, including those resources on the road but within 8” of an enemy or blocked from the city gates by the enemy is counted towards the evil resource total.
Any Peasant killed by the evil side is counted.
Farms or hamlets that did not send their resources back that are occupied by the good side but have enemies within 8” can elect to destroy the resources to deprive the evil side of a chaos point. Similarly resources on the road accompanied by troops other than peasants can elect to destroy their resource point.
How do these totals affect the game.
For the good side it is twofold:
1) Food, every farm that sends its resources back to the city adds one resource point to the city resource pool. Every hamlet adds 2.
2) Peasants, getting peasants inside the city increases the pool of able bodied men, both to man the walls but also to do the work of putting out fires, shoring up weakened walls, patrolling streets. This leads to good order and a bonus to moral. But naturally not having enough food lessens moral and extra mouths means less food per person. Every 5 peasants equals a manpower point, if there are any remainder peasants 4 also equals a MPP but 3 or less dose not. The total is the
We then work out the moral bonus, matching the resource pool to the man power pool. If the two pools are equal or the resource pool is higher the moral bonus is equal to the manpower pool. If the man power pool is higher the moral bonus will be equal to the resource pool minus the difference between the two pools as the citizens have to tighten their belt further. I have to work out how the moral bonus affects the good side in the second and third battles so any ideas much appreciated. A bonus/penalty to Ld is obvious but may be too much.
For the bad side:
Every resource captured (hamlet resources count as two) is added to the number of (peasants killed/5), this shows the number of extra units the evil side can have on the board during the second siege in progress/sally battle.
hope yo like the looks of this and please post ideas, changes whatever.
Mister Rab
Member
I do like the look of it.
As a bit of an amateur HYW geek I strongly approve of the idea of managing the retreat to the fortified city. I think you've got the balance between advantage to each side for the resources and surviving peasants (I'll be able to add a handful or so of Foundry/old Citadel pitchfork, scythe and club peasants as well), and the risk of protecting/attacking them.
Would it add too much complexity for the game 1 to game 2 transition for any Good units in hamlets to be left there when the city gates are shut at the end of game 1? Having to hold out against the horde in a battered old farmhouse is an enticing mix of La Haye Saint and the pathetic aesthetic which is rather apt in the circumstances.
As for the morale bonus, instead of adding a Ld bonus, is there a bonus that can be given to save rolls for the city walls against siege engines to reflect the extra assistance of those practicals hands?
I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with for Games 2 and 3!
As a bit of an amateur HYW geek I strongly approve of the idea of managing the retreat to the fortified city. I think you've got the balance between advantage to each side for the resources and surviving peasants (I'll be able to add a handful or so of Foundry/old Citadel pitchfork, scythe and club peasants as well), and the risk of protecting/attacking them.
Would it add too much complexity for the game 1 to game 2 transition for any Good units in hamlets to be left there when the city gates are shut at the end of game 1? Having to hold out against the horde in a battered old farmhouse is an enticing mix of La Haye Saint and the pathetic aesthetic which is rather apt in the circumstances.
As for the morale bonus, instead of adding a Ld bonus, is there a bonus that can be given to save rolls for the city walls against siege engines to reflect the extra assistance of those practicals hands?
I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with for Games 2 and 3!
lenihan
Moderator
This looks great...
I think we'll need a bit more flexibility in terms of what people can bring on the table, given that we need to be able to balance the wishes of participants who've come a long way and want to play with their toys against the wish to have a real sense of the consequences of particular actions (i.e. we don't want to say "well, because of points restrictions due to the last game, you're only allowed to field a single pack mule!). Though I think we can still work something out; say by getting participants to reduce unit strength by a particular % based on the outcomes of the lead in scenario, or restricting supplies for siege engines, or something or other...
I think we'll need a bit more flexibility in terms of what people can bring on the table, given that we need to be able to balance the wishes of participants who've come a long way and want to play with their toys against the wish to have a real sense of the consequences of particular actions (i.e. we don't want to say "well, because of points restrictions due to the last game, you're only allowed to field a single pack mule!). Though I think we can still work something out; say by getting participants to reduce unit strength by a particular % based on the outcomes of the lead in scenario, or restricting supplies for siege engines, or something or other...
Erny
Member
Glad you like it guys.
M.Rab, yes I had meant to include forces staying behind in fortified positions, they could even join in the 2nd game having their own minor sally out. I also considered having a forest on table so Harry's band of outlaws could camp out to attack at opportunity, obviously well away from the area around the city walls that would be cleared for defense. Only thing is a forest may be the first thing cut down by a besieging army so I'm in two minds on that, clearly it would be down to what we all want.
Lenihan
I understand your concern about limiting numbers of units. My proposal is that the number of units on table at the start of the second game would be limited, other units having to be billeted off table to be able to find enough resources to survive. Nothing would stop these off table units entering the table like trailing forces however! This would give the sallying force a limited window of opportunity to destroy war machines and supplies before it becomes unlikely they will be able to return behind the walls.
M.Rab, yes I had meant to include forces staying behind in fortified positions, they could even join in the 2nd game having their own minor sally out. I also considered having a forest on table so Harry's band of outlaws could camp out to attack at opportunity, obviously well away from the area around the city walls that would be cleared for defense. Only thing is a forest may be the first thing cut down by a besieging army so I'm in two minds on that, clearly it would be down to what we all want.
Lenihan
I understand your concern about limiting numbers of units. My proposal is that the number of units on table at the start of the second game would be limited, other units having to be billeted off table to be able to find enough resources to survive. Nothing would stop these off table units entering the table like trailing forces however! This would give the sallying force a limited window of opportunity to destroy war machines and supplies before it becomes unlikely they will be able to return behind the walls.
Citadel Collector
Moderator
Erny, what oldskool Citadel were you thinking of for the B) "elite skirmishing units"?
Erny
Member
I have some nice Imperial style archers to be used as foresters, Harry has some Robinhood types I believe. I also have some old mounted crossbows and knights. However I'd love to see what others have and obviously it doesn't have to be old school citadel.
What have you got up your sleeve?
What have you got up your sleeve?
Thantsants
Member
Yep - love it!
Cutting down the forest could be a skirmish/scenario in itself with Harry's Merry Men waiting in ambush while the Orc lumberjacks get closer and closer...
I can supply 10 or so villagers, 3 pack mules, 2 carts and draft aniumals, 10 Foresters, 20 or so militia/pikes, 6 mounted knights and loads of scenery for fortified farms (all my Orc's Drift stuff).
For the baddies there will be 18 wolf riders, 6 Gruntas and 10 Snortas, 6 Trolls + Goblin Shaman on Spider, 1 (2p possibly) Giants and 2 Wyvern Riders. I do have about 6 chariots but might be a bit pushed to get them painted in time.
Cutting down the forest could be a skirmish/scenario in itself with Harry's Merry Men waiting in ambush while the Orc lumberjacks get closer and closer...
I can supply 10 or so villagers, 3 pack mules, 2 carts and draft aniumals, 10 Foresters, 20 or so militia/pikes, 6 mounted knights and loads of scenery for fortified farms (all my Orc's Drift stuff).
For the baddies there will be 18 wolf riders, 6 Gruntas and 10 Snortas, 6 Trolls + Goblin Shaman on Spider, 1 (2p possibly) Giants and 2 Wyvern Riders. I do have about 6 chariots but might be a bit pushed to get them painted in time.
Erny
Member
If we had a week then all these possible scenarios could get a look in. Unfortunately we have 2 days, plus a few hours at a push. Why can't the world just understand, the whole of August needs to be a national holiday for war gaming only.
I'll post up some thoughts on game 2 soon, I appreciate this will be one that many people have ideas about.
Sticking giants in adds a whole new dimension.
I'll post up some thoughts on game 2 soon, I appreciate this will be one that many people have ideas about.
Sticking giants in adds a whole new dimension.