Why Marauder?

[Erny]

Really when talking about marauder we should state clearly if we are talking pre management buyout or post. Before the management buy out is when Marauder produced their classic sculpts, the stuff full of character and fun. I always think these early sculpts are to Gary Chalk as the contemporary citadels are to Tony Ackland. Their goblins were smaller and some how more vicious and mean than The Goblin Masters, though I love his goblins too I hasten to add. The wood elves more wild, the witch elves more witchy. I still love the citadels but the Maruader line was the bubble gum fun, stereotypes cranked to 11 kid brother. I love my kid brother and marauder almost alike...

After the buy out the onus on citadel and indeed I guess Marauder was to churn them out with a more child friendly style, they had small budgets and money to make from an identified larger market. Things got a bit bigger, a lot simpler and just plain different. They still have their charm and I have separate armies of later sculpts in my collections. They are not the same as the earlier marauder and trying to talk about both styles in the same thread can get confusing.

Oh and for the record the first prototype scale mail high elves were certainly not those sword masters. Not by a long shot, ignoring Tom Meire's elves Jess did quite a few that clearly show signs of his late plastic high elves that became the look for 4th ed HE onward.

 

[Blue in VT]

Excellent post Erny...I think that is a very important point to keep in mind.

Blue

 

[Zhu Bajie]

1989 (pre sale) Orcs:

1991 (post sale) Orcs:

Look pretty much the same to me - perhaps the difference is more apparent in other ranges?

Am really starting to like their Dark Elves.

 

[Erny]

Well maybe the post sale changes didn't actually occur until sometime after the buy out, there was a lag time. I only know thta those inside credit the change in style to the change in management and financial circumstances. I suspect this is true particularly of Marauder who being their own company had a different set of priorites which didn't feed back until the parent company started demanding something different.

If we are looking at green skins I'd say that second set of orcs belong stylistically to the earlier standard. The actual comparison is:

to

Though the goblins are perhaps the least worst of the bunch. Far better to look at the Dark Elves. Do you mean these pre the buy out?

or these post:

Yes it says citadel but they were marauder.

 

[lenihan]

Oh and for the record the first prototype scale mail high elves were certainly not those sword masters. Not by a long shot, ignoring Tom Meire's elves Jess did quite a few that clearly show signs of his late plastic high elves that became the look for 4th ed HE onward.

Oh absolutely, I have several other earlier ones.

What I meant - and I admit I didn't explain this very clearly - is this: at some stage, the idea of High Elves having pointy helmets and scale mail as standard became the accepted doctrine. I believed that had happened with these Marauder sculpts - but you may be right that the plastics came first?

If we consider earlier scale-mail and pointy helmeted elves, they are mixed in with other styles (consider the sea elf bolt thrower; one his scale mail and looks very much like the High Elves that continue to this day; another has chain mail, the third seems to be in shirt and jeans!)... now, of course, you never get anything other than scale mail and pointy hats, so it's really the idea of it becoming standardised and regimented that I'm attributing to Marauder. Not denying that there are earlier individual examples.

Could still be wrong, like! Just want to be clearer in my wrongness.

 

[Blue in VT]

Yeah it's really 4th Ed vs 3rd edition releases in my mind....obviously I prefer the 3rd.

Look marauder ranges like the MM15 clansmen and MM10
Dwarfs for a huge variety of dwarfs with different arms and armor...much like the imperial dwarfs lines of citadel. The style is not the same but the quality of the sculpts and the amount of detail
On them is superb.

Blue

 

[Zhu Bajie]

at some stage, the idea of High Elves having pointy helmets and scale mail as standard became the accepted doctrine

Tom Meier 1988?


Its hard to judge line art against a photo! I don't like any of those witch elf designs, not my cuppa, but yeah I can see the copy/paste effect is stronger with the later releases, but the design and sculpting looks much the same. Then again, compare what Jes was doing with the Wardancer / Harlequin / Bloodbowl Elf ranges around the that period, "cast up a half dozen dollies and stick on bitz", the whole production-line effect was really quite strong across the board, it just looks like they're churning out stuff. Yeah there are some nice things happening here and there, but the focus does seems to be on volume.

 

[Lord Chaotl Oml]

As I painted the Marauder Orc chariot (and some more things) last month I discovered some smaller details I didnt recognise before. Things like cut off ears, hands and a mouse sitting on it. The greenskins are sure cleaner and I would agree that they mark the newer, more uniform and cleaner design. But as I started with 4th edition, Im pretty used to that. But I can understand why some don´t like it that much. The mixture of the older Ranges and rough textures, as Olleys stuff, have a special appearance. More wildness and distinction inside a regiment.
Biggest down, in 4th edi minis, in my oppinion, was the beginning limitation of different sculpts, as mb04 Goblin Regiment for example, Command plus 4 Archers/4 handweapon. Really nice sculpts (imo) but a Regiment would have many doubles. Monopose plastics were ok for me back then (as it was not the cheapest hobby), now I´m hunting for regiments without doubles.
The Marauder Nightgoblins look great too, but as there are only 3 and a shaman thats even worse.

I grew up with the cleaner/newer stuff of Marauder sold as Citadel, but I´m very happy to discover that older stuff. The rougher looks seems to have gone hand in hand with an different feeling of play, maybe regarding to the proximity to roleplay, as mentioned before (regarding the ogres)

 

[Captain Crooks]

That Tom Meier sculpt is incredible... someone sell me one quick!!

 

[lenihan]

Tom Meier 1988?

Beautiful mini, would love one. But you seem to be missing my point - I know that scale mail exists earlier, I have earlier minis than that even. But the example you give is certainly not "as standard", rather he's an exceptionally beautiful individual, not a rank and filer wearing a "uniform".

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Tom Meier 1988?

Beautiful mini, would love one. But you seem to be missing my point - I know that scale mail exists earlier, I have earlier minis than that even. But the example you give is certainly not "as standard", rather he's an exceptionally beautiful individual, not a rank and filer wearing a "uniform".

Oh, right I get you now. I thought you meant "as standard" depiction of an elf warrior in miniatures, not "a uniform". BTW compare Toms design with the current GW High Elf Army book cover...

Lothen city guard, 1985 ?

Pauline Baynes, Smith of Wooton Major (Toikien) 1967 ?

 

[Captain Crooks]

Oh that does it, I'm officially collecting Tom Meier elves, starting now! I didn't think this Marauder thread would be so dangerous...

 

[SlaveToSlaanesh]

I think much of what happened ( cause I felt some of this back in the early 90s ) is that due to citadel at that time, having many different sculptors working on ranges, and in some cases multiple sculptors working on ranges, around the time marauder was in full swing ( late 3rd ed ), marauder stood out as a cut above citadel, this mainly being that it was aly and trish own style, so you essentially had a "streamlined coherent look" to the marauder range, with at that point...many aging citadel sculpts from the mid 80s till then.

This I believe was an illusion more than anything, since being objective it's sorta unfair looking back to compare citadel vs marauder. To get technical marauder still exists, it's just that it was swallowed up back into warhammer itself, I still remember when 4e was out in WD they often left the marauder logo even though GW was no longer releasing marauder blister packs, the entire range was just warhammer on those pathetic sterile green or red boring blister art packs at that point. What I mean by marauder still existing is that, both aly and jes goodwin have "evolved" vs the 80s, this relating to actual technical skill and sculpting detail, but we can still today look at a jes goodwin or aly sculpt and most of the time know it is them.

If we look at like the khorne sculpts jes has done with the last warriors of chaos releases, it' still JG and screams his 80s style but hes improved vs then by having an even finer quality applied to those sculpts along with a massive scale increase vs the 80s, but they will work more or less along side his original realm of chaos champions, the major difference I would say there is some of his sculpting was a bit more organic...less precise in areas.

The same goes for aly's skeleton plastic warriors, they look like marauder skeletons just they are more modern in terms of dynamic pose and detail.

The empire is a bit different because aly really went to town on both the 3e dwarves and empire, all having the puffy look it's like he took the perry twins fetish over that and bumped it up to 11, but it works and looks great vs the more merc rag tag looks of the plastic empire troops. As far as 4e marauder I think the so called "Cartoony buy out" view is more based on the ADD child painting red period than anything, if you paint many of those 4e marauder releases up like 3e paint jobs they will still look oldschool, there was not a huge difference imo over that part just the terrible paint style and choices of that time.

 

[Wheeling Turn]

When it come to Marauder Minis I must say that they have like all other makes some good, some bad, and some well you know.
For me the Wolf Riders and Chaos Dwarfs are a must have as are most of the Orks and the humans. Others like their Dark Elves are a bit too chunky for my taste.

 

[Blue in VT]

Its good to see this thread percolating along still....and I'll just leave a couple of pictures here as my latest contribution to the question...









...nuff said...

Cheers,

Blue

 

[daddyorchips]

those are beautiful minis.

The first minis I ever bought were from Marauder, Dark Elf Scouts, and a Chimera. As such I my feelings are "why not marauder?" - some of the later stuff definitely a bit pony and cartoonish, but some lovely minis before that. the dwarfs especially I like.

 

[Wheeling Turn]

Yeppa these are the ones I like.....great paint job