WH40k Second Edition Tournament

[Colonel Tytus]

I agree managing horde armies on 1000 points can take time, and small points are reasonable in this case. on the other hand, I was playing 1000 points with my SM last month and I had only 17 models on the table. I was playing against Eldar /20 something models/ and it took us to around 1.5h to finish the game. I believe if a horde army will face SM, it would take no more than 2 hours. Horde vs Horde is tricky...

I guess, if we agree on 750 points, SM or Chaos would field only a handful of marines. it started to feel more like a skirmish game for them

just saying...

 

[Orjetax]

I live far away from your tournament. But I’ll share a view on points since I’ve been playing. Bunch of second ed recently —

You will bog down if you attempt to go above 1k points.


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[Norse]

I scribbled up a 1000 point ork list last night aiming for variety and flavour - a couple of mobs, 5 characters and 5 support items makes about 50 models. I think to make a force that can include some variety and get that feeling of being 'proper', 1000 seems like the right size. BUT... I reckon I will be lucky to finish a game with them in under 2 hours.

I count 5 definite entrants and one unclear (@norse, not sure if you were commenting in general or planning to bring some troops?) so if we say 5 for sure, if were to play each other once that's already 8+ hours and a fair chunk of the weekend booked up. That's about the maximum I'd like to dedicate to any one thing, and leave the rest of my time for other things/mooching about. Not sure what others feel on that of course.

So perhaps the decision to be made is the tournament format? There might be ways to arrange it so fewer games are played, especially if more people want to participate, although I don't have any experience with that kind of thing.

my 2p's worth!

I'm certainly very interested as I happen to be in the middle of putting some 2nd edition bits together (the box set and some Necron Raiders), though would prefer it to have some kind of connected narrative to it rather than being a pure tournament. And it depends on what format is settled on. If it doesn't allow me to do other things over the weekend I'm out.

How would 500 points work out? Marines will only be running a squad and something in support, but I don't see that as a problem in 2nd edition.

Another idea to consider is a "doubles" format, depending on numbers of interested parties.

 

[makhachkala]

500 pts is very small: less than the size of the forces in the 2e starter box. The orks in there plus a warboss to make the list legal makes 650 pts. I would rather play fewer, slightly longer games with a more interesting/varied army, than play everyone but with the same very small and basic force. 750 is about the minimum for variety I think. How about 850 as a compromise?

I too would enjoy a narrative format of some kind, and want to keep time aside for other things.

So perhaps we could have 2 stages: in the first we each play say two or three games against a random opponent (we all play the same number of games, but choose how many based on how much time we want the event to occupy). We could make a narrative to give context to those battles and who we each face next could be kept secret, or not. Then we tot up win lose draw points from that round, and play a final game each according to rank order, 1st v 2nd, 3rd v 4th etc. We could also set turn or just time limits on games (e.g. 2 hours).

How does that sound as an idea?

 

[Golgfag1]

Ok Gentlemen, I've been watching a certain amount of detached interest, as the sci-fi side of Warhammer has never really been my thing (don't get me wrong - I have a collection of classic Naismith marines I think are great, but Fantasy has always been my thing, but I digress) why not this idea a go - you all play three games using armies of either 500, 750 or a 1000 points, the nub is you can only use one of them once, the player chooses the order he plays the list, but he doesn't know what order his opponent is going to use his - you may get lucky and play the same points, but there's always that chance your either going to face impossible odds (think Rorkes Drift, Alamo or Agincourt) or overwhelm your opposition (Khartoum etc.) . But, this then give you - your possible narrative game - which could be over reasonably quickly

You can then set your scoring system by how well you lose or win - not much good beating a five hundred point army, if, you lost more than!

Just an idea

Paul/Golgfag1

 

[Norse]

500 pts is very small: less than the size of the forces in the 2e starter box. The orks in there plus a warboss to make the list legal makes 650 pts. I would rather play fewer, slightly longer games with a more interesting/varied army, than play everyone but with the same very small and basic force. 750 is about the minimum for variety I think. How about 850 as a compromise?

I too would enjoy a narrative format of some kind, and want to keep time aside for other things.

So perhaps we could have 2 stages: in the first we each play say two or three games against a random opponent (we all play the same number of games, but choose how many based on how much time we want the event to occupy). We could make a narrative to give context to those battles and who we each face next could be kept secret, or not. Then we tot up win lose draw points from that round, and play a final game each according to rank order, 1st v 2nd, 3rd v 4th etc. We could also set turn or just time limits on games (e.g. 2 hours).

How does that sound as an idea?

As there are no requirements in second edition for anything other than to have more than a certain percentage of troop types or less than a certain percentage of other types I'm not sure why you think everyone would be playing the same basic force. 500 points of space marines could be a tactical squad and a character or vehicle, or several scout squads, a group of teleporting terminators or all sorts of other things. There's even more choice in a horde army, where troops cost so much less.

It's later editions that require certain slots to be filled - HQ etc. 2nd edition you have a lot more freedom.

What you probably *won't* get at 500 points is a balanced force with a bit of everything, instead you're likely to have more specialised forces.

I'm not specifically trying to argue for 500 points here, just pointing out that you can do a lot more interesting things with 500 points than you say you can.

An interesting idea Paul. Especially if you have alternative victory conditions for an underdog force that still give them a chance of 'victory' - likely player victory rather than force victory. As in keeping a certain number of things alive, eliminating a specific target etc. Achievable things, that probably don't feel like much of a victory for the poor bastards on the ground.

 

[ramshackle_curtis]

IM up for 750 points. Id like more, but I realise time is an issue.



Im not really bothered with a narrative, for me the actual battle as it unfolds in narrative enough. Although I like to read any narrative anyone wants to make up of course!

Something like a simple scenario generator with 3 or 4 objectives would suit me. Say someting like

1. Last man standing
2. Recover the McGuffin and get it off the board
3. Secure the objective, timed amount of turns.


I ran a rogue trader tournament at BOYL a couple of years back and it was this type of set up. It was clear and easy and meant that you had to bring a sort of balanced force as you wouldnt know what scenario you would play. It was great fun! There was a big mix of different players who all had amazing armies, all very different due to having different things they wanted from the game. Nibble came from germany so packed a very small force, whereas Matt showed up with his orcs and built an army from the the rulebook with no army lists!

 

[makhachkala]

just pointing out that you can do a lot more interesting things with 500 points than you say you can.

Point happily taken on what's possible with 500pts!

Taking a range of armies at different points values could be interesting. Since I don't have much experience, I will defer to others for the details of how that would work in practice.

Any solution that allows us to field a nice variety of units, either within a single army or across a few different lists, is what I would be looking for.

 

[Norse]

One idea:

Everyone has 3 lists - one at 500, one at 750 one at 1000 - as per Paul's idea. Figures can obviously be reused between different lists. Each player also has 3 mission cards and 3 strategy cards (either ones from 2nd edition itself or new ones that we generate that allow for underdog armies to still achieve a specific objective) and assigns one of each to each of their 3 forces.

You play one game with each of your 3 forces. Player who accumulates the most victory points wins.

 

[ramshackle_curtis]

SOunds fun, so each player gets 3 games?

 

[Norse]

Yep. And if you do it like that you could probably play one game a day and leave the rest of the weekend free.

 

[Colonel Tytus]

One idea:

Everyone has 3 lists - one at 500, one at 750 one at 1000 - as per Paul's idea. Figures can obviously be reused between different lists. Each player also has 3 mission cards and 3 strategy cards (either ones from 2nd edition itself or new ones that we generate that allow for underdog armies to still achieve a specific objective) and assigns one of each to each of their 3 forces.

You play one game with each of your 3 forces. Player who accumulates the most victory points wins.

I like this idea a lot!

 

[James Holloway]

I would definitely be interested in joining in! I would probably bring either Chaos or Orks, unless I paint an uncharacteristic number of Marines over the next few months.

 

[Legiocustodes]

We always need more xenos or heretics.

 

[James Holloway]

Great! Time to do an inventory.

 

[lgmdaniel]

I might be coming to BOYL2019, and I have plenty of Guard, but I never played 2nd Ed. My only experience is 1st and 8th, as there was a bit of a gap. I have plenty of Guard, Marines, Eldar and drible of Orks.

 

[Legiocustodes]

That’s fine mate! We’ll teach you. The one thing I would say is to try and get onto eBay and grab a copy of the old Guard Codex and rule book. They are usually cheap as chips but it will give you a steer!

 

[Legiocustodes]

So I think I’m going to go for a Sisters of Battle Force for this tournament as it is one of my favourite second edition codices!!

 

[lgmdaniel]

That’s fine mate! We’ll teach you. The one thing I would say is to try and get onto eBay and grab a copy of the old Guard Codex and rule book. They are usually cheap as chips but it will give you a steer!

I have a 'battletome' version, so I can get the reference and points right, but I'll have a look and see if I can acquire and original.

 

[ramshackle_curtis]

I will be bringing Death Guard, nurgle chaos space marines.