Oldhammer AHOY!
- Thread starter Fimm McCool
- Start date
Fimm McCool
Lord
I'm very happy not be the one deciding the rules on this... not really bothered about the rules as I just want to build ships!
But for what it's worth:
Not really interested in balance, since this is about silly fun for me, not about a 'fair fight' or trying to win. I'm building my armies on the basis of what makes for an entertaining crew to play with and building in special rules to handicap 'good' troops (or taking less of them than the crew max) and rules that will help 'weaker' troops. As far as I'm concerned "not taking the piss" is a better guideline than points. I think most Oldhammerers get what might not be appropriate.
I agree the warmachine limit makes gunships a problem. That's why I've advocated swapping a wizard out for a second war machine allowing, as you say, two 180 degree arcs. The reason for cutting down on machine is the same as cutting crew size, the plan is to get several games in, not just one long game and limiting machines/crew speeds things up massively.
There are few options on the table (actually on the floor for this I believe...). Either having a series of smaller games leading to a bigger good vs evil battle to end on the Sunday OR having a system where people can jump in as they like on one ongoing fight. The latter would be my preference. We'll have extra ships so players can sail a spare ship on whenever they want to join and leave the game once sunk or by sailing off the board to go and join another game.
But for what it's worth:
Niibl":2pl9llq2 said:
Not really interested in balance, since this is about silly fun for me, not about a 'fair fight' or trying to win. I'm building my armies on the basis of what makes for an entertaining crew to play with and building in special rules to handicap 'good' troops (or taking less of them than the crew max) and rules that will help 'weaker' troops. As far as I'm concerned "not taking the piss" is a better guideline than points. I think most Oldhammerers get what might not be appropriate.
Niibl":2pl9llq2 said:
I agree the warmachine limit makes gunships a problem. That's why I've advocated swapping a wizard out for a second war machine allowing, as you say, two 180 degree arcs. The reason for cutting down on machine is the same as cutting crew size, the plan is to get several games in, not just one long game and limiting machines/crew speeds things up massively.
Niibl":2pl9llq2 said:
There are few options on the table (actually on the floor for this I believe...). Either having a series of smaller games leading to a bigger good vs evil battle to end on the Sunday OR having a system where people can jump in as they like on one ongoing fight. The latter would be my preference. We'll have extra ships so players can sail a spare ship on whenever they want to join and leave the game once sunk or by sailing off the board to go and join another game.
Erny
Baron
I've finnally got round to sarting my sea elf ship and I've had a right headache with it. Sea Elves are supposed to pretty much own the seas, at least around Ulthan and yet my vision of a sea elf ship is rather more Tolkien than Piarates of the Carribean or giant catamarans of 90's GW imagining. How can I have a cog armmed only with marine bolt batteries be a credible threat to a Man o' war or an Iron clad. I just cannot picture cannon being used.
Magic sure and I may go that route subbing in an extra magician instead of a cannon but one are I'd like to explore is, wait for it..a carrier based fleet, Elven sea eagle dive bombers and dargons surely have to be the way the sea elves control the seas around Ulthan and maintain their extensive trade routes free from chaos privatiers. In an age of gunpowder there has to be something that the non gunpowder maratime super power is doing! I'm looking at room on my cog for a couple births for giant sea eagles, probably with riders and using the thrid ed rules for dropping stones. If we are dealing with airships and iron clads I'm not unconvinced a long range dragon patrol isn't out of the question. All flyers to be based on suitable height flight stands with sea textured bases of course. I don't see a problem with this rules wise using third and a don't take the piss attitude but if peopke have problems I'm more than happy to abide by the majority.
Pheonix class carrier cogs for the win! You all know it makes sense.
Magic sure and I may go that route subbing in an extra magician instead of a cannon but one are I'd like to explore is, wait for it..a carrier based fleet, Elven sea eagle dive bombers and dargons surely have to be the way the sea elves control the seas around Ulthan and maintain their extensive trade routes free from chaos privatiers. In an age of gunpowder there has to be something that the non gunpowder maratime super power is doing! I'm looking at room on my cog for a couple births for giant sea eagles, probably with riders and using the thrid ed rules for dropping stones. If we are dealing with airships and iron clads I'm not unconvinced a long range dragon patrol isn't out of the question. All flyers to be based on suitable height flight stands with sea textured bases of course. I don't see a problem with this rules wise using third and a don't take the piss attitude but if peopke have problems I'm more than happy to abide by the majority.
Pheonix class carrier cogs for the win! You all know it makes sense.
Fimm McCool
Lord
Well since Norse is planning a Goblin Doom-Diver carrier and Andy Tidball has a Bretonnian Pegasus carrier in the pipeline I'd say you're free to go ahead! 
Golgfag1
Moderator
Following your chain of thought Erny, have to say I also considered the steam-powered ironclad V wind powered cog & plumped for the cog on the basis of the early iron-clads were usually flat-bottomed, based close to shore. or in river estuaries (no keels), so out in deeper water they were easily swamped in any kind of rough water; anything stronger than a 2-3 swell their going to be in trouble! (we are rolling for sea state, aren't we? 
).
Also, given the damp conditions on most early ships - it was usually difficult to keep gun-powder dry (lots of misfires & poor performance, hence the development of the cannonade - short ranged cannon) which led to exchanges of broadsides and boarding actions; which leads on to - why build a ship which can only sink other ships? If, your sending ships to Davey Jones locker - if, your not collecting prize money, your not going to be a popular captain - coastal defence can be the only conclusion?
As to the development of effectively - aircraft carriers - got to say I was fairly tempted myself by this, especially when I saw someone's dwarf army, with I think, 6 gyro-copters - wow, that would be fun! I put that idea to one side - as, I no longer have a dwarf army and the restrictions I'd put on myself would not make it variable - short range, limited ammo etc. due to supply being limited to what the ship could carry. The idea of flying creatures as an alternative also brings it's own problems - food, big animals tend to have big appetites, what crews going to share bunk space with a Dragon, if foods running short?
So, I'm tending towards a cog with a fairly useful crew and a possibly a small balloon towed behind the ship with a few small barrels of napalm & fire-arrows, which might prove interesting against the giant powered vessels, will he be ducking under the surface to put the flames out!
Just my initial thoughts, on why I've chosen a sailing ship, now all I have to do is finish the bloody thing!
Paul / Golgfag1
). Also, given the damp conditions on most early ships - it was usually difficult to keep gun-powder dry (lots of misfires & poor performance, hence the development of the cannonade - short ranged cannon) which led to exchanges of broadsides and boarding actions; which leads on to - why build a ship which can only sink other ships? If, your sending ships to Davey Jones locker - if, your not collecting prize money, your not going to be a popular captain - coastal defence can be the only conclusion?
As to the development of effectively - aircraft carriers - got to say I was fairly tempted myself by this, especially when I saw someone's dwarf army, with I think, 6 gyro-copters - wow, that would be fun! I put that idea to one side - as, I no longer have a dwarf army and the restrictions I'd put on myself would not make it variable - short range, limited ammo etc. due to supply being limited to what the ship could carry. The idea of flying creatures as an alternative also brings it's own problems - food, big animals tend to have big appetites, what crews going to share bunk space with a Dragon, if foods running short?
So, I'm tending towards a cog with a fairly useful crew and a possibly a small balloon towed behind the ship with a few small barrels of napalm & fire-arrows, which might prove interesting against the giant powered vessels, will he be ducking under the surface to put the flames out!
Just my initial thoughts, on why I've chosen a sailing ship, now all I have to do is finish the bloody thing!
Paul / Golgfag1
Erny
Baron
Golgfag1":2gxyrdu0 said:
That is why Sea elves are very lucky to have friendly giant sea eagles on side. If a giant sea eagle cannot feed themsleves at sea who can? I know the open oceaqn is very big but they have veruy good eyesight. This way the ship becomes nothing more than a perch for when it tires, to eat from or for the riders to mount. I'm considering births at the back for when the weather gets bad but I guess they would normally just fly above any storm. It's all thought out.
Oh and Dragons don't tire and so fly home to land.
Golgfag1
Moderator
Well said Erny,
Neither a truer word, I just didn't take - the general Superiority complex of Elves into account - that all other races are so far beneath their level, they wouldn't consider taking their ships as prizes.
I can now, see where the dwarfs get their opinions of elves from?
(Sorry, Erny I couldn't help myself, I just had to put that bulls-eye on your sail! )
Paul / Golgfag1
Neither a truer word, I just didn't take - the general Superiority complex of Elves into account - that all other races are so far beneath their level, they wouldn't consider taking their ships as prizes.
I can now, see where the dwarfs get their opinions of elves from?
(Sorry, Erny I couldn't help myself, I just had to put that bulls-eye on your sail!
) Paul / Golgfag1
Fimm McCool
Lord
I'm going to hide ten treasure chests on islands for the Saturday game, if you can make it off the table with one or keep it safely on your ship until the end of play you'll get a lovely prize.
Harry
Baron
Hello fellas,
Sorry not been around for a while. Real life and all that.
Thanks Fimm for holding the fort.
So Yes ...
Rules ... we were going with the rules as written in the generals compendium ... just because they were there.
We were just going to limit the crew sizes so the games didn't get too long winded.
The war machines were limited just because they can do some damage and didn't want them to be too OP with reduced crews. But if you want a boat load of guns ... knock yourself out. You just need to balance this with a strong possibility of blowing up and taking chunks out of your own boat.
As Fimm says its not so much rules ... more of a code ..."Not taking the piss" is a great way of putting it.
... and then lets not forget .... "the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules".
As for the game ... Gaj bolloxed up on his timetable ... I have said all along it is my intention to rock up on the friday set this game up Friday lunch time and let in sit there all weekend for folks to have some fun.
As Fimm said I imagine some sort of rolling game where folks can just join in any time and leave by sailing off the board. I have objective markers like treasure chests and a Pirate flag. I had ideas like having the flag makes you the oldhammer Pirate king which allows you to replace lost crew with new recruits ... but will make you a bit of a target. Treasure will let you repair your boat ..... but again makes you a target.
Also the floor keeps being mentioned. ... this is a table top game .... there is tooo much moving little men around for it to be on the floor. We played this on a 10x5 table and that was fine with 4 or 5 boats. The boats don't have huge movement values ... its all been written for a table. The directors tables there are 6x15? Probably be fine with 8 or 10 boats on a table like that. Can't imagine games will get much bigger than that?
I have a few boats on the way so hopefully folks can just rock up and join in.
I have:
A Norse crew with a Long ship.
An Orc crew in an Orc Long ship.
A Nippon (Chinese pirate) Crew in a Junk
An Undead crew in a ghost boat.
Three Dwarf submarines.
A floating Amazon pyramid being dragged by a Slann Mage priest riding a Giant turtle.
Some MacDeath Higlanders on a log being pulled by the Loch Ness monster.
and some Wood Elves in a canoe.
I shall be having some fun coming up with rules for that lot.
.... and if I get time I would like to bring some Estalians in the Flying Santa maria and the Birdmen of Catrazza and a flying aircraft carrier.
@Nibbli Please bring monsters ... I have
The Kraken!!!!
A Big Shark
A Giant Octopus
A Giant Crab
But the more the merrier.
Sorry not been around for a while. Real life and all that.
Thanks Fimm for holding the fort.
So Yes ...
Rules ... we were going with the rules as written in the generals compendium ... just because they were there.
We were just going to limit the crew sizes so the games didn't get too long winded.
The war machines were limited just because they can do some damage and didn't want them to be too OP with reduced crews. But if you want a boat load of guns ... knock yourself out. You just need to balance this with a strong possibility of blowing up and taking chunks out of your own boat.
As Fimm says its not so much rules ... more of a code ..."Not taking the piss" is a great way of putting it.
... and then lets not forget .... "the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules".
As for the game ... Gaj bolloxed up on his timetable ... I have said all along it is my intention to rock up on the friday set this game up Friday lunch time and let in sit there all weekend for folks to have some fun.
As Fimm said I imagine some sort of rolling game where folks can just join in any time and leave by sailing off the board. I have objective markers like treasure chests and a Pirate flag. I had ideas like having the flag makes you the oldhammer Pirate king which allows you to replace lost crew with new recruits ... but will make you a bit of a target. Treasure will let you repair your boat ..... but again makes you a target.
Also the floor keeps being mentioned. ... this is a table top game .... there is tooo much moving little men around for it to be on the floor. We played this on a 10x5 table and that was fine with 4 or 5 boats. The boats don't have huge movement values ... its all been written for a table. The directors tables there are 6x15? Probably be fine with 8 or 10 boats on a table like that. Can't imagine games will get much bigger than that?
I have a few boats on the way so hopefully folks can just rock up and join in.
I have:
A Norse crew with a Long ship.
An Orc crew in an Orc Long ship.
A Nippon (Chinese pirate) Crew in a Junk
An Undead crew in a ghost boat.
Three Dwarf submarines.
A floating Amazon pyramid being dragged by a Slann Mage priest riding a Giant turtle.
Some MacDeath Higlanders on a log being pulled by the Loch Ness monster.
and some Wood Elves in a canoe.
I shall be having some fun coming up with rules for that lot.
.... and if I get time I would like to bring some Estalians in the Flying Santa maria and the Birdmen of Catrazza and a flying aircraft carrier.
@Nibbli Please bring monsters ... I have
The Kraken!!!!
A Big Shark
A Giant Octopus
A Giant Crab
But the more the merrier.
Golgfag1
Moderator
Harry,
Right, now that the rule question has been answered - I'll print a set off, do you want spare copies?
I've picked-up another two ships on E-bay! So, more spares available for those without, currently working on a Human(?) crew, But will bring others - Half-orcs, goblins etc.
See you all there
Paul / Golgfag1
Right, now that the rule question has been answered - I'll print a set off, do you want spare copies?
I've picked-up another two ships on E-bay! So, more spares available for those without, currently working on a Human(?) crew, But will bring others - Half-orcs, goblins etc.
See you all there
Paul / Golgfag1
Harry
Baron
Hi Paul,Golgfag1":2n85cux1 said:
Yup we will probably want a one or two sets of rules knocking about but I wouldn't print off multiple sets just yet as I am not sure of Chris will get around to doing something with them to make them more compact.
I have that Hovercraft we used in a game previously .... no crew ... and no idea what crew to put on it???
Golgfag1
Moderator
Harry":2a1icqdp said:Hi Paul,
Yup we will probably want a one or two sets of rules knocking about but I wouldn't print off multiple sets just yet as I am not sure of Chris will get around to doing something with them to make them more compact.
I have that Hovercraft we used in a game previously .... no crew ... and no idea what crew to put on it???
Just so happens I have a bunch of scantily clad females which might be suitable or is that going too far down the line of that 'conversation'?
Paul / Golgfag1
Harry
Baron
I think going anywhere near that conversation is heading in the wrong direction!Golgfag1":2vmjdb61 said:Harry":2vmjdb61 said:Hi Paul,
Yup we will probably want a one or two sets of rules knocking about but I wouldn't print off multiple sets just yet as I am not sure of Chris will get around to doing something with them to make them more compact.
I have that Hovercraft we used in a game previously .... no crew ... and no idea what crew to put on it???
Just so happens I have a bunch of scantily clad females which might be suitable or is that going too far down the line of that 'conversation'?
Paul / Golgfag1
Chatted to Chris last night .... he is planning to do some slimmed down rules. .... shared rules on a couple of sides and then seperate sheets for sail powered/ore powered/steam powered/etc boats .... so anyone joining in does not need to get there head around pages and pages of rules.
Harry
Baron
To all,
Norse (Chris) and I had a brief chat last night ....these are some of the ideas we threw back and forth ....
Six islands dotted around the table.
Any boat joining in rolls (D6) to see which island they start parked up at.
Any ship can visit any island by reducing there speed to zero within 6 inches of an island.
Each island has a six point encounter table. You roll (D6) on that table .... sometimes it s good news and you discover buried treasure / magic items / etc .... sometimes its bad news and you find the island inhabited by pygmy head hunters / some pirates there to bury their loot / a marooned Ogre captain following a mutiny / etc.
Monsters... every turn we throw a dice and consult the monsters of the deep chart. If a gribbly appears you roll a dice to see which island it lives near. All monsters will be AI. If someone is on their island they attack that ship. If not they swim directly from their starting island to a random (D6) other island (If they roll the island they are at they stay patrolling the waters). Each turn all monsters in play roll a dice and head in a random direction towards a different island. They attack any ships they bump into on the way. (OR who bump into them because they can not avoid them on their move).
We also discussed changing the whole move sequence from IGOUGO to all boats move at the same time / All missile troops fire at the same time / All magic / All monsters / all boarding actions etc.
We were thinking of doing this because of our experience during the siege game. In that game there was bit of standing about. If we had a lot of boats in game it could be a bit stand around hammer. But if everyone can just get on with it .... stuff happening on one side of the table does not need to effect what anyone else is doing .... and this is how it was in the siege game ... lots of individual fights going on ... on different parts of the table.
With folks not having to wait for the outcome of a fight that does not effect anyone else the whole thing will be a bit faster.
We are also looking at fast play boarding rules. We can use the rules as written if there are just a few boats but if there are a lot of boats we could get a bit bogged down in resolving boarding actions.
Any thoughts ... other ideas to throw in the mix .... please have at it.
I am off to paint some pygmies.
Norse (Chris) and I had a brief chat last night ....these are some of the ideas we threw back and forth ....
Six islands dotted around the table.
Any boat joining in rolls (D6) to see which island they start parked up at.
Any ship can visit any island by reducing there speed to zero within 6 inches of an island.
Each island has a six point encounter table. You roll (D6) on that table .... sometimes it s good news and you discover buried treasure / magic items / etc .... sometimes its bad news and you find the island inhabited by pygmy head hunters / some pirates there to bury their loot / a marooned Ogre captain following a mutiny / etc.
Monsters... every turn we throw a dice and consult the monsters of the deep chart. If a gribbly appears you roll a dice to see which island it lives near. All monsters will be AI. If someone is on their island they attack that ship. If not they swim directly from their starting island to a random (D6) other island (If they roll the island they are at they stay patrolling the waters). Each turn all monsters in play roll a dice and head in a random direction towards a different island. They attack any ships they bump into on the way. (OR who bump into them because they can not avoid them on their move).
We also discussed changing the whole move sequence from IGOUGO to all boats move at the same time / All missile troops fire at the same time / All magic / All monsters / all boarding actions etc.
We were thinking of doing this because of our experience during the siege game. In that game there was bit of standing about. If we had a lot of boats in game it could be a bit stand around hammer. But if everyone can just get on with it .... stuff happening on one side of the table does not need to effect what anyone else is doing .... and this is how it was in the siege game ... lots of individual fights going on ... on different parts of the table.
With folks not having to wait for the outcome of a fight that does not effect anyone else the whole thing will be a bit faster.
We are also looking at fast play boarding rules. We can use the rules as written if there are just a few boats but if there are a lot of boats we could get a bit bogged down in resolving boarding actions.
Any thoughts ... other ideas to throw in the mix .... please have at it.
I am off to paint some pygmies.
Golgfag1
Moderator
May I suggest - On positioning of the islands placing most of them to one end of the table or to one side, thus providing a bit of cover for those small ships with few or no cannon and a large portion of clear open water for those ships which do need a bit of space to move and shoot.
Oh and can some of the dice rolls for things to happen - be something doesn't happen or it doesn't happen immediately i.e. it happens in a turn or two - leaves players worried, gives them time to run away and leave something nasty or good for others to find!
As for turn sequence no problem with everybody moving & shooting etc at the same time, but can we roll for who starts, each turn - as you may find people wanting to move into the same space (going last will be a bonus) or maybe sunk before they get a chance to shoot.
initial thoughts
Paul / Golgfag1
Oh and can some of the dice rolls for things to happen - be something doesn't happen or it doesn't happen immediately i.e. it happens in a turn or two - leaves players worried, gives them time to run away and leave something nasty or good for others to find!
As for turn sequence no problem with everybody moving & shooting etc at the same time, but can we roll for who starts, each turn - as you may find people wanting to move into the same space (going last will be a bonus) or maybe sunk before they get a chance to shoot.
initial thoughts
Paul / Golgfag1
Harry
Baron
Thanks Paul. All good points. Keep 'um coming.
Had another thought.
Rather than dice on a table each island could have a shuffled set of cards on the island for each visiting player to draw from. That way it could be something that happens as paul suggests in a couple of turns but only 'you would no that ... rather than rolling on a table that everyone would know the outcome.
Every time a deck is finished on any one island shuffle all the cards from all the islands and deal them out again.
But this lead to another thought ... each island could have a secret. You discover an islands secret by visiting it. These secrets could be things like ... how to defeat the Kraken. or how to summon the Kraken. A short cut to another island, a Treasure, map etc, etc .... answers on a postcard please.
Had another thought.
Rather than dice on a table each island could have a shuffled set of cards on the island for each visiting player to draw from. That way it could be something that happens as paul suggests in a couple of turns but only 'you would no that ... rather than rolling on a table that everyone would know the outcome.
Every time a deck is finished on any one island shuffle all the cards from all the islands and deal them out again.
But this lead to another thought ... each island could have a secret. You discover an islands secret by visiting it. These secrets could be things like ... how to defeat the Kraken. or how to summon the Kraken. A short cut to another island, a Treasure, map etc, etc .... answers on a postcard please.
Golgfag1
Moderator
Harry,
Please consider - if you have a pack for each island your creating either a lot of admin for the GM (you) or the potential need for a lot of duplicate stuff, suggest one pack for all the islands, which only the player & GM know what it says/means when they've turned the card!
Remember - keep it simply, stupid.
Paul / Golgfag1
Please consider - if you have a pack for each island your creating either a lot of admin for the GM (you) or the potential need for a lot of duplicate stuff, suggest one pack for all the islands, which only the player & GM know what it says/means when they've turned the card!
Remember - keep it simply, stupid.
Paul / Golgfag1
Harry":2vlbjfiv said: