Goblin Green bases - flock or sand?

[Raffles]

Hi all,

I was one of those kids in the 90s who would have loved to play Warhammer but was too poor to afford it. Now I'm a grown up (sort of) with a job I can re-live a lost part of my childhood. I'm a Skaven player tho haven't got round to actually playing yet, and wasn't too happy to learn about the death of the Old World.

In the meantime, I've bought some 25mm square bases to keep in line with the new requirements, but I would love to get them as accurate as possible to create the early/mid 90s feel from White Dwarf.

Herein lies the problem, for quite a few of the bases shown in 1990s WD I can't tell if they've used flock and then just painted the rims, or used sand and painted the whole base.

Should I use flock or sand? I've just bought some Coat d Arms Goblin Green, I'll probably need the Sun Yellow to dry brush.

I'll post some pics here once I get things sorted. My army is a mix of old and new so unfortunately the models won't be entirely 90s, hopefully they will be nostalgic though.

 

[Eric]

Looking at the larger box photos of some of the plastics from that era (local charity shop find a week or two ago) I'm fairly sure that the bases were the classic: fine sand + goblin green + yellow dry brush. Painted sand will also survive longer than flock (although I suspect I just never sealed mine back in the day). However if you want a reasonable match for the flock GW sold then we found Jarvis No.2 Mid Green Fine Turf wasn't bad - although the colour does vary a bit between bags so worth mixing up if doing a large hill or something.

And welcome onboard! Looking forward to seeing some of your work!

 

[ManicMan]

I know some people around here would know for sure but.. in some real closeup ones I've seen.. sometimes it appears to more be the scouring pad painted ^_^; I think WD did a bit on bases around the time but.. I'm not sure in some of the bulks..

As I was writing this, Eric stepped in, so that's fine ^_^

 

[Golgfag1]

I tend to sharp builders sand, a touch more grit hence more texture

Paul / Golgfag1

 

[Raffles]

Thanks for the replies, (I'm following your Skaven thread with interest, ManicMan).

Does anyone know the official guide to basing with Goblin Green? I can't find much info from the 1993 painting guide as there aren't many online. At the moment I'm just painting the surface with modge podge and dipping it in baked dirt rather than sand. Hopefully it will have the same result.

Also, I have GG from Coat d Arms, is the Sun version the best one to go for Sunburst or are there better versions? I heard CDA was a continuation of the old citadel line.

I did initially buy Leaf Green due to this post: https://forum.oldhammer.org/threads/closest-to-citadel-goblin-green.9933/post-83440

However, as you can see, it's nothing like GG.

Hopefully I'll be able to recover these, I bought 100 so should be ok. I think the dirt grain might be a bit too fine as well so will try and get some sand.

This is what I would eventually like to end up with (WD 161/1993).

 

[Eric]

From my rather chopped up copy of the 1992 painting leaflet it goes through the expected steps (but for some reason lists adhesive tape as a requirement but never uses it!):

As a picture speaks a thousand words:



GW's suggestion is sourcing small bags of sand from pet shops. Although of course any hobby shop will happily flog you sand. One advantage of living near heathland is an ample supply of sand (although it'd be tad soggy right now). I'd say you need a more sandy sand so you get the courser texture. Obviously the cheapest place for sand and PVA is probably your local DIY warehouse, but then again 5L of PVA and 25KGs of sand (which won't be dry) might not be the most "handy" sizes!

Going off topic - well as far as Goblin Green bases go - personally I do most of my bases separate to the miniature - so when painting the model it's in a clamp or stuck to something else. I then do my basic base and then fix down the model. If it's a slotta tab I then have to go back and cover up the slot once it's in place, but I find it easier for access to the base for dry brushing and I'm generally putting some static grass on so that can hide any sins. I use Vallejo's textures for my bases (Earth Texture and Russian Mud are the ones I use) to give me a dark grey/brown to work up from. I throw a black wash over it, then a little drybrush to bring out the texture and then a smattering of static grass and a black edge to the base (which I think looks smart!).

 

[ManicMan]

Raffles: Thanks ^_^ getting back into some of them after some delay
Eric: Is that from the Blue one? should have checked that.. though the Red one has this which is slightly different:

 

[Eric]

Is that from the Blue one?

I don't know it doesn't have a cover - I've just got some loose pages that I must have put in a binder at some point. I happened to find them a month or two ago which is why I remembered them! Copyright 1992, product code 0705 written on the contents page (which I do have!)

 

[Raffles]

Im starting to think there's not a standard basing technique prior to 1993 as that last one mentioned Woodland Green and has a black rim. Looking at the images I posted the other day it seems quite a few models have slightly different colour bases.

Presumably they did become standardised later? I'm guessing by 1994 it was just GG with sunburst yellow.

 

[ManicMan]

I think the red is 1989.. Just checked.. the blue is also 1989.. don't have the 1992 one then ^_^

I think it didn't really become standardise but often depended on the painter. the image I showed from 89 was Mike McVey and bases did still have a variation on if they green edged them or black.

 

[Loose Loser]

They had all sorts of bases ( looking through army books ). Custom or painted with this green or that green, flocked or not. The thing is that photos are always little bit off with colours ( you can even spot same miniature that got completely different hue? on army shot and solo ). Something that looks dull in the White Dwarf or army book, looks very bright in person. Also,depends what colour is base of the base. Direct paint on sand ( I found that that produce somewhat neutral colour, more natural ) or, sand was painted before that green. Super fine sand didn't show good to me as it's very noisy so when you went on with drybrush ( yellow ) it really kills that green as you cover it. Gale Force 9 grit was nice. Most of the bases ( far as I can see ) is the mix of fine and smaller sand.

Oh, and that coat d'arms goblin green is nice. Got one but you really have to shook that paint and went on thick with it. Different colour if you do otherwise haha at least in my case.

You can peel of that sand from your bases with scalpel in one go. Unless you've used super glue to glue it. Their pictures are very yellowish so that Goblin Green looks like it's more toward ( newer ) Loren Forest from Citadel then anything else. Wish I have decent images on my thread but they are all far away from the truth hehe

I don't think they had it that simple like Goblin Green then Yellow in the 90s. I don't believe it because those two colours are very bright. Do think it was wash or two in question as that last image.

I think, on Warhammer Community where they show some minis ( 40 years of Warhammer or something like that ) they show few older, originals so you can see how the bases looked with todays photography.

On link there are few minis. Goblin Green?

https://www.warhammer-community.com...m-retro-painting-to-modern-day-masterclasses/

EDIT No.43245 - On Warhammer Community, few 40 Years of Warhammer articles. Many old miniatures, originals from 90s.

 

[Raffles]

It's been a few weeks but I'm making some progress. I've 100 x 25mm bases to glue sand on, spray with primer, paint and dry brush.

Reference images from WD 223/1997 July.

 

[Loose Loser]

They had thicker sand that's for sure I think. Not that much fine one like yours, I think. Try out, not really drybrush but semi-drybrush ( more paint on it ). Slowly passing with brush over the sand. I did that on my cockatrice and some Chaos Warriors and I liked the results.

I'll try tomorrow as I'm also fan of it and so far no luck, but didn't try that other grade of grit and slow over brush like I did on Cockatrice. Maybe it would help you little bit or give you an idea, even this is nice.

 

[Raffles]

On link there are few minis. Goblin Green?

https://www.warhammer-community.com...m-retro-painting-to-modern-day-masterclasses/

EDIT No.43245 - On Warhammer Community, few 40 Years of Warhammer articles. Many old miniatures, originals from 90s.

I'm not sure if those minis have goblin green bases, they look more like the modern variant of goblin green/warboss green. If you check the Warhammer YouTube videos that's what they're using for retro schemes, although, imho, it's not the same as the original GG.

Mid Winter Minis has a good example:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

This is the technique I'm trying to copy. You can see his original GG base colour is quite different/slightly lighter from the green bases in those pics.

Or I just can't tell the difference from my phone screen, which might be more likely.

 

[Loose Loser]

I think from Warhammer Community links are originals, Tyranid is from that era 100%. Depends on photograph. In all army books and things like that, they usually had jacked up contrast or something.

Bloke at the end used original GG but over those others. Adding little bit of Yellow into coat d'arms GG, would get you closer that's for sure. Of course it depends how paint dries. Sometimes it needs time to change colour when it's fully dry.

 

[Raffles]

Colours are a bit different in daylight.

 

[Loose Loser]

Looks great. Little bit of problems is that you ( and meself ) are trying to get colour that is on photograph. Many of their images are altered. Maybe I'm wrong what you want to achieve.

That sand in bottom right got nice size for drybrushing.

 

[ManicMan]

mostly a mixture of studio lighting and with how Camera's work ^_^
Best chance? if you are anywhere near Foundry, they have a number of old citadel miniatures painted back in the day (like the Heroquest Protos) so you can see them under more normal light.

 

[Loose Loser]

Yeah, there's even Bryan Ansell's collection here. Again, photographs but some are taken with flash light or direct light. You're spot on I think with your bases.

Bryan Ansell's Collection - CcmWiki

www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com

 

[Raffles]

Just browsing some other old WD.

This from the official WD eavy metal painting guide by Richard Baker from WD 221 May 1998:

It clearly says to use GG then do the top with GG, white and yellow.

And this is from the official eavy metal guide by Adrian Walters from WD 220 April 1998:

It clearly says mix white into GG and paint it over the top of the base.

Clearly there's no official hard rules if even the eavy metal team writing for WD in the late 90s don't use the same technique. Other WD from the same year suggest using flock.

I'll keep on with my own coat de arms GG and GW flash gitz/sunburst yellow in the meantime. Sorry for all the pics but it may help if people are interested in doing retro GG bases. My next pics will be with models.