What was up with 4th Ed Chaos Dwarfs?

[ManicMan]

Since i just had to do some reference checking it kinda reminded me so I'll ask.. What was up with Chaos Dwarfs in 4th Ed? Where as other armies got an Army Book, they just got a 'white dwarf collection' one.. Chaos Dwarfs end up feeling like an afterthought or someone on staff really liked them but no-one else did..

Chaos Dwarfs also seam a bit odd in that they are tied together with Black Orcs and Hobgoblins

 

[Loose Loser]

Not that popular? They were rare as miniatures in the late 90s, at least here, and most expensive to get. They were tied with Hobgoblins but I think they used other greenskins as slaves? I think there is story about origins or something like that in that army book. Have you got look see?

If not mistaken, they'll be new models since they'll get army book in Warhammer Old World for some reason, but Undead still split on Khemri and Vampires ( Vampires got nothing except how to use them in Old World, because of timeline? I'm even more confused then before ).

 

[ManicMan]

unlike other army books which had extracts in White Dwarf, the Chaos Dwarf one was pretty much just taken from White Dwarf (and clearly stated to be such). I would say rare miniatures because they didn't make them alot..

Storywise, the book says they were Dwarfs which made moved to the Worlds Edge Mountians and gotten lost underground, making a city there.. Then, being near Chaos, they started to Worship the Chaos God Hashut, Father of Darkness. They then took many Orc and Goblin slaves and tried to breed there own type of Orc. The first type were the stronger Black Orcs, which were more loyal and orderly then normal orcs, but felt they were too independent, so killed most of them, then Hobgoblins, who were larger then normal goblins but not as strong as Orcs, who had sided with the Black orcs then left them and went to the Chaos Dwarf side.

Normal army list includes Hobgoblins with Animosity towards Orcs and Goblins, with Black Orcs, as well as Slaves/recruited Orcs & Goblins, with Black Orcs being more the leaders. Can ally with Chaos, or Orcs & Goblins.

 

[EGG]

I've never understood that either. Like you mention, all the other Army books released had specific publications and with the exception of some of the early books, generally followed a format. Whereas the Chaos Dwarf book was mostly articles from WD and the paragraph/colour formatting was different.

I once looked up the numbers on which armies were featured in how many White Dwarf Battle Reports during 4th ED:
Chaos Dwarfs = 5
Undead = 1
Dark Elves = 2
Skaven = 2
Chaos = 3
[Empire, High Elves not sure but they had some]
Orc & Goblins = 12!!

So there was definitely some kind of support for them in WD. Or they were the studio punching bag.

While we're on the topic of 4th Ed anomalies, I only recently realised that when David Cain won the first WFB tourney in 1995 and then beat the GW staff champion also, he did it using the stock Wood Elves army from the Battle Bestiary, the Wood Elves army book wasn't released for another 7 months. No special rules, bespoke spells or magic items, no special characters.

 

[Loose Loser]

What were the rules back then for tournaments. Was like something without special characters, also something with characters on monsters etc. There was article where bloke with Undeads got his tournament journey in WD. I think then was also interview with Perrys where they said they've sculpted few thousands miniatures for GW and few thousands for Foundry! hehe That army book from Wood Elves is practically 5th edition in mind since there's no magic spells and magic items in army book, I think ( I mean, there's no magic items or magics but I think 5th edition in mind hehe).

 

[ManicMan]

pass.. Tournaments never really interested me.. if you need to change the rules of the game for such a thing, you have a problem with the rules of your game.

side note.. that made me want to check a couple of issues and I just LOVE a bit in 193.. Games Workshop Studio has just been hooked up to the internet and a archive collection of rules questions has been collected by 'Ed Etkin' at his site: Gates of Fenris.. and the address is soo old 'school' internet stuff.. (well, middle school really).. 'http://www.users.interport.net/~ftimer/' (mm.. there is an archive on WBM of that site saying it has moved in... 1998?

There is also a bit about the Perry Twins having started a food fight at the year before's 'North American Games Day'.. (a games day in North America or a games day about North American games?)

 

[Loose Loser]

They didn't change the rules but set some limitation for tournaments.

Don't have Magic Supplement for 4th edition ( Arcane Magic and Battle Magic ) so cannot be sure what kind of magic was for Wood Elves, I mean specific ones. Magic items should be available as they produce miniatures, they usually put rules for them in WD. Special rules for them and items and all that. Magic also as cut outs from WDs.

 

[ManicMan]

Oh, Got Battle Magic..

there is nothing speciality for Wood Elves that I know of.. Amber Magic seams to be a good fit for them (designed for druids and the like.. dress in furs and skins)..

Ah.. page 23 talks about allotment of magics and Wood Elves.
"Wood elves are so tied to their syivan way of life that their magic as devolved from the High Magic of their High Elf forebears. Wood Elf Mages do not belong to the Colleges of magic (they learn their magic from their own Mage Lords) but they are restricted in their choice of spells. A Wood Elf Mage (level 1) may receive either an Amber or Jade Spell. A Wood Elf Mage Champion (level 2) may receive both Amber and Jade Spells. A Wood Elf Master mage (level 3) may receive Amber Spells, Jade spells and spells of any one other colour. A Wood Elf Mage Lord (level 4) may use High Magic Spells and/or any colour spells in the same way as a high Elf Mage. Spells may be exchanged in the same way as for human wizards and High Elf Mages. Wood Elf Mages have the same dealing priority as High Elf Mages."

And as for cards with figures (slightly off from the WD having them but close enough).. right.. mixed.. While NOT needed, I do like it when Reference cards come with the figures BUT only if they are also available other ways. For example, my father likes the Warlord Judge Dredd Game. Its one where you buy a miniature, it comes with states card and items etc. BUT, a number of these bits can be gotten else where.. Sometimes from there website, sometimes they are the same stats and stuff from the rule book. But games where you HAVE to buy the figure to get the cards allowing you to use the figure.. I'm not too keen on. While I can 100% understand this from both a marketing angle and basically allowing later expansion, in games were figures are kinda generic (like, say Warhammer) I don't like the whole locking you down to ONLY using there stuff.. With Warlord, you can quite easily use Judge Dredd figures from other companies, or just generic sci-fi for some bits.


That said, I do know and have no problem with some games where it isn't a case of generics as they are very specific and others don't do anything like it, so that's a bit more acceptable.

 

[Loose Loser]

Was thinking more as when they presented this and that miniature in WD, usually they give rules for that miniature and sometimes cards for that mini to use. Old boxes got those attributes on back of the box. They exclude that in 5th edition I think and they start doing that with AOS and newer 40K boxes where you would get card how to use your miniatures in the game also available in army book or something. I do like that. I can't recall any game that rules for miniature are given only with purchase of the miniature. That doesn't sound good hehe

 

[ManicMan]

I can think of a few games... but I'm not going to go too much into that. And it's not a great idea on the whole.

GW was quite good with WD.. I don't know what it is like these days but a good half of the Army books were also published in WD so really, you didn't need to buy the army books as well.. but then, if you did, WD came with a lot of filler content which was just taken from the rule books.. I know some 2Ed 40K had cards for reference like the Rhino which.. I can't quite remember if it was on the box or in the box.. that that does kinda allow you to release stuff later.. Though the cards for things like the Rhino and add-ons were also in WD. But by this point, WD was pretty much ONLY GW stuff, and even then, limiting to what parts of their range. Could argue the technically reprint material was good to bulk out the pages, but then, why not just charge less for a smaller product? pass.. Though that reprint stuff was nice enough.

 

[EGG]

My dim recollection is that in the early days the tournament rules changed each time as they figured out what worked.

1995 - ?
1996 - 2000 points, no unridden monsters, no level 3 spells, unsure of the other rules
1997 - ?

I know that for 1997 the Forbidden Rod was banned, a magic item they had only just introduced.

 

[Sleepysod]

I know that for 1997 the Forbidden Rod was banned, a magic item they had only just introduced.

Quite aptly named