What is Oldhammer?

[Zhu Bajie]

I want to respond to, and elaborate upon, Zhu's point that no one suggested Oldhammer as a community. The primary definition of Oldhammer I gave, (on page 2 ) is the idea of a community:

Oldhammer is the forum I came across whilst I was trying to discover as much as I could about the 'magical age' of gaming... This forum has allowed me to explore these ideas with like minded individuals

Oh. OK. Sorry I interpreted that differently. From my POV the 'forum' is a platform, a kind of architectural space that is held in commons (unlike other spaces, which are more like fiefdoms ) and affords a wide variety of interactions between individuals, I don't recognise the forum itself as a "community" (any more than people who use a telephone network is a community), although it's membership, along with anyone else perusing Old[War]hammer can be considered as such.

But then Thatcher said there was no such thing as society, so that's just a position one can choose to adopt for whatever reason.

Well, it may be a position that one can choose to adopt, but it doesn't make it true

[/quote]

Precisely!

 

[Stormbringer]

For me it is two things.

Firstly it's about connecting with history. I was born in '83, so playing Warhammer 1st/2nd Edition helps me rediscover the fog-shrouded, primal, undiscovered world of my early years. There's something rather satisfying and fulfilling, on a personal, psychological level, about that.

Secondly, it's a statement about personal creativity; using a fantastic set of rules (a flexible tool-kit as Zhu put it) to play the games I want to play in the way I want them to be played, with the models I want to use, rather than playing in a predefined universe with predefined units in accordance with somebody else's design.

It's rather arrogant, perhaps, to take this view. But, when it comes to wargaming, unlike playing board games there is a much more personal touch to it, like a work of art, and in that realm I really don't like being constrained by others' ideas.

 

[Protist]

Oh. OK. Sorry I interpreted that differently.

No need for an apology - I can see now that intro I wrote ("I want to respond to... Zhu's point" etc.) reads as a tad negative but wasn't intended as such. Just wanted to carry the ball forward from where you left off since it sparked some synapses in my grey matter.

From my POV the 'forum' is a platform, a kind of architectural space that is held in commons (unlike other spaces, which are more like fiefdoms ) and affords a wide variety of interactions between individuals, I don't recognise the forum itself as a "community" (any more than people who use a telephone network is a community), although it's membership, along with anyone else perusing Old[War]hammer can be considered as such.

You should read the blog post I wrote following on from my post above... I think we are in agreement

What isn't oldhammer, when played with a sense of fun... - games are supposed to be fun, yes?.

Essentially yes but humorous/interesting/dramatic/mysterious etc. can add heaps to it as well

 

[weismonsters]

Personally I do not really believe in a golden age of warhammer in any objective or profound sense. I believe that GW in the 80s and the people in charge of it had merits but also had faults. Some of those merits and faults contributed to the legacy which current GW and current versions of Warhammer have inherited.

I am attracted to certain aspects of the game from a certain period because that is what caught my imagination when i was young. That is purely subjective. I find most of what goes on in these forums to interest me a great deal. It is a real living organic hobby that people have. And there is a good awareness of what is out there in terms of smaller companies and ventures doing good stuff which gives hope for the future of fantasy gaming.

 

[Wheeling Turn]

For me Oldhammer is but a facette of my personal way of gaming. I like what is called "Old School" gaming. That is playing with simpel often selfmade rules and old miniatures. Not caring what new shiny army lists say and developing my own regiments, heroes and the like.
A bit like playing in my childhood days on the carpet in the living room.

 

[Protist]

Personally I do not really believe in a golden age of warhammer in any objective or profound sense.

Indeed, its purely subjective, I'd agree with that. There'll be plenty of people in 30 years time looking back at 7th-8th edition and thinking "those were the days". However for many members of the forum there is a time when the game captured their imagination more than its current set up does, and I think its still ok to refer to it as a golden age. There is no longer the sense of novelty/originality in the developing of an imaginary world, with all the creativity that goes with that. The currently rumored re-vamp is still just that, a re-working of an old idea. Not bad, but it has a different sort of feel to it.

... which gives hope for the future of fantasy gaming.

This is an interesting thought, and one that has crossed my mind a few times as well. Although we have the term 'Oldhammer' with its connotations of nostalgia and looking back - the amount of activity that goes on in looking ahead is brilliant. Coming up with games, systems and rules for future BOYLs is a great example. Its not simply Old, its New as well!

 

[Fimm McCool]

Wow, is this thread still going?

 

[Legiocustodes]

I'm impressed that my innocent question has provoked such a strong response.... And that it has remained entirely civil throughout!

 

[dieselmonkey]

Due to some recent threads, I've entirely changed my definition.

It's totally something you use to fit kitchens.

 

[lucifer]

Oldhammer for me us finally being able to afford all the stuff I couldn't when I first started out in games workshop.

My 'oldhammer' is a little more recent than some others here mainly sitting around the mid 90s... Serried ranks of mono pose plastic core mixed with flat metal command groups and one piece characters.

I aspire to have a whole force of my oldhammer and show that old models can still look good!

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Wow, is this thread still going?

Of course, semantics is up there with copyright

You should read the blog post I wrote following on from my post above... I think we are in agreement

Yeah it's a nice piece! I think it's helpful to split-out connotative and denotative meaning. By way of example, someone says to me "Doctor Who" - I immediately think of playing with the Mego 8" Daleks and Cybermen with my brother and my neighbour. So that's what "Doctor Who" means to me - that's the immediate connotation for me (along with a bunch of other connotations that arrise later) - but I don't expect anyone else to have that exact same meaning informing their use of the term (although some people may have similar connotations). The detonative meaning is a long runnng TV series made by the BBC and the character within that fiction. So whilst the connotative meanings are individual, subjective and liable to both change and can be disputed, the denotative meaning is kind of fixed - Old [War]Hammer, and as you say, ideas of Community are bound by that reference point.

 

[Fimm McCool]

Wow, is this thread still going?

Of course, semantics is up there with copyright

Tell me about it... 5 years of Theology degree has taught me to analyse everything comes down to semantics... except miniatures! Who's going to be the first person to answer this thread in pictorial form?

 

[Protist]

Tell me about it... 5 years of Theology degree has taught me to analyse everything comes down to semantics... except miniatures! Who's going to be the first person to answer this thread in pictorial form?

Do I win a prize?

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Here's your prize!

 

[daddyorchips]

oldhammer for me is about preferring the old games and models to the new, and about participating in a way that isn't all about points and who has the killiest armies. that's it really.

 

[SlaveToSlaanesh]

Oldhammer for me is probably a little more "militant" and rigid in structure as to what it should and should not be considered, that is not to say I have a problem with anyone elses view of what it is to them, but to define it...from my perspective...in what I would consider to be an "accurate" way, it would be all of this.

Specifically FANTASY I'm not going to lump other gw games or RT into this.

1 All minis are citadel and pre 4e whfb, with a heavy emphasis on slotta base minis, marauder and whatever "sub puppet sculptor" official lines are to be accepted and included. Pre slotta can be used but should be mounted on plastic square bases.

2 A complete 80s mindset and attitude over the game, a very casual who cares wild and chaotic fantasy world, one in which the old world was not so "flushed out" fluff wise, so keeping within what was known, but with plenty of "this exists because we can make it up because it's not defined yet" approach.

3 Rpg/narrative elements being part of the game experience.

Basically 3e fb

I would not try to enforce this on anyone of course, but it's more or less what defines "oldhammer" to me as a nostalgia/mental image.

 

[Fimm McCool]

So here's a thing. Can anyone get some miniatures that were released in the last year (preferably in Finecast, or maybe Age of Sigmar ) and using a current set of GW rules play a game that is undisputedly Oldhammer? See I reckon it's not beyond the realms of possibility, creativity ain't dead yet!

 

[Zhu Bajie]

undisputedly Oldhammer

 

[Fimm McCool]

undisputedly Oldhammer

See what I did there?

Would even a game of 1st Edition WHFB using only the miniatures that were available at the time be undisputedly Oldhammer? Or would it just be 1st edition hammer?

 

[Asslessman]

Ask on FB guys, they have the answer(s).