Throwing Weapons

Stormbringer

Stormbringer

Vassal
Good afternoon folks,

I was wondering what the general Oldhammer consensus was on throwing weapons.

Say your model is armed with a spear, and clearly it is the only spear the model is carrying -- perhaps the only weapon the model is carrying -- but you decide to throw the spear anyway during the Shooting phase...is your model now unarmed? I wonder the same thing about knives. If your model has a knife hanging from his belt and you decide to throw it during the Shooting phase, is the knife now 'gone' or do you just abstractly assume that the model brought enough knives for the battle (or, in the case of spears, manages to either retrieve the original or pick up another one in time for the Combat phase)?
 
I would say you can't throw a spear as it is your primary weapon but I am am looking at it from a Warhammer Ancient Battles perspective which catered for this situation and you had the options of Spear/Heavy Throwing Spear/Javelin, the Javelin was the only one throwable, the heavy throwing spear gave 1st round combat benefits and spear was just a plain HTH combat weapon as most rank and file could not afford a Sword. For a narrative game of WFB with few characters I would say knmock it off the sheet, for big battle disallow as it will cause the game to drag.
J
 
I agree with the above...As I understand the "spears" in WFB 3rd ed are hand weapons...if thrown I would consider them improvised. If you want a throwing weapon arm your troops with javelins...which I would assume they carry a small load of so can throw repeatedly.

But one of the beauties of 3rd ed is the flexibility of the rules...find common ground with your opponent and GM and have fun!~

Cheers,

Blue
 
Thanks, both.

The reason I asked about spears specifically is because both 1st and 2nd edition list "spears" along with other throwing weapons such as hammers, darts and axes.

I'm not an expert on historical weapons so I'm not too clear about the difference between a spear that one would only use in hand-to-hand and a spear that could be thrown. Perhaps I should research this...
 
All these things are just fancy name for a pointy stick. Javelin, spear, lance, polearm, pike, naginata, or bamboo pole cut to a spike. They are all deadly and cheap. Some are better for throwing, some are better for combat. Some can be held in the off hand or even with a shield, and they are not covered in the rules.

Essentially its the training that is important. Normal spear men go into battle with the basic weapon, a sharp stick. If they throw it away they will be defenseless. So a normal spear unit will never throw their spear under normal circumstances. Roman pilum were shock attack weapons, spears thrown then discarded. The romans then set too with heavy one hand swords. Obviusly shooting units with javelin type weapons would carry enough to be effective for the battle.

I would say that if your unit is suitable modeled then it can take advantage of the natural felxibility of the rules. Or if you want to turn a unit into a shooting spear unit but only have figures with just the single spear, model up some baskets or carts of extra ammo, to put with your unit.
 
After writing my response below my initial thoughts are I'm teaching my granny to suck eggs, so please tell me to shut up now. :lol:

I'm sure an entire thesis could be written on this subject by any number of students (History, pathology, physics etc.) but throwing weapons can can be broken down into two main groups - Light throwing spear, light axe, knives, darts etc which can be thrown a considerable distance by hand and the range can be extended by the use of a throwing aid such as a cord or throw stick (look them up on you tube) and would be used to thin out the enemy at a distance; these can be easily defected by a shield. There are then heavy throwing weapons such as pilums etc. which are used just before hand to hand - which disrupt the enemy's formation and cohesion and thus effectiveness, as they've more than likely lost their shield as it's been pierced, broken or has a heavy piece of iron hanging from it!
Spears used by Hoplites etc. are thrusting spears and used to hold the enemy off at a distance in hand to hand combat, hence their really good against shock troops like heavy knights.

Paul / Golgfag1
 
As said, historically most spears have been stabbing weapons.

Have included some "rules" for Bugbears to throw their weapons at their enemies

bugbears.png


Oldhammer bugbear armylist basically can throw weapons but must then retrieve them to use again. I think the 3rd Ed. rules for Javelins say to just assume they have enough for the whole battle, which is OK, but in a skirmish I wanted more detail, plus a kind of comic-book / action movie thing of throwing a 2H battle-axe at someones head - a bit like Goblin Fanatics, not really sensible rules but adds flavour.

Golgfag1":2g7a53w6 said:
as they've more than likely lost their shield as it's been pierced, broken or has a heavy piece of iron hanging from it!
Click to expand...
The armour piercing Pillum destroying shields should get it's own rules! Are there any in WAB?
 
Zhu, I recall no Rules in WAB for heavy throwing spears destroying shields, the just give HTH combat benefits, I haven't played WAB for a couple of years so correct me If I am wrong
J
 
I think the Warhammer Historical book 'Gladiator' had rules for Roman pila destroying shields, but that was built on the Lord of the Rings: Strategy Battle Game engine, not Warhammer Fantasy Battle.

I like your Bugbear army list, Zhu. Have you written others for other creatures?
 
I think the rule was, if you successfully saved against a pilum throw, and were carrying a shield, that shield was now gone and you had to remove a point or two (depending on the type of shield) from your Defense rating.

In WFB, you could easily make a rule that a succesful Armour Save roll against a pilum by a model with a shield means that the shield counts as destroyed and all Armour Save benefits it provided are lost.
 
Stormbringer":2swhkrkn said:
I like your Bugbear army list, Zhu. Have you written others for other creatures?
Click to expand...

There's Pig Faced Orcs and Hobgoblins plus a bunch of notes (ahem) up at Oldhammer Monster Manual rather than actually writing them up.

Stormbringer":2swhkrkn said:
In WFB, you could easily make a rule that a succesful Armour Save roll against a pilum by a model with a shield means that the shield counts as destroyed and all Armour Save benefits it provided are lost.
Click to expand...

Consider that nicked! I'd rule that the Pilum is broken and the troop would have to use an alternate weapon.
 
Zhu Bajie":1tdy47sy said:
Stormbringer":1tdy47sy said:
In WFB, you could easily make a rule that a succesful Armour Save roll against a pilum by a model with a shield means that the shield counts as destroyed and all Armour Save benefits it provided are lost.
Click to expand...

Consider that nicked! I'd rule that the Pilum is broken and the troop would have to use an alternate weapon.
Click to expand...

Sounds great!

When it comes to retrieving thrown weapons (as in your Bugbear rules), how do you represent the spot where the weapon landed? Do you use an actual model of the weapon, or do you place a marker or what?
 
The rules are pretty clear, if you want to throw spears then you pay the points for throwing spears/javelins. If you do this then you have enough to last the battle. If you also want a spear then pay the points.

If you want to role play having just one spear and then collecting it you'll need to house rule it.
 
OK. May I humbly suggest you use the rules from 3rd ed. As detailed above, they should work.
 
Stormbringer":38e9bovx said:
When it comes to retrieving thrown weapons (as in your Bugbear rules), how do you represent the spot where the weapon landed? Do you use an actual model of the weapon, or do you place a marker or what?
Click to expand...

To be honest it's not a tactic my players have used very often - leaving the Bugbears without their primary weapon and open to attack. When it worked the position is marked by the dead bodies of the victims, just lay them down rather than remove from play. I usually just put a dice down as a marker for most temporary effects, although a "weapons cache" would be cool, and could also be used as an objective marker.
 
Another way to do pilum would be to give the attacker a +1 to hit or +1s in the first round of combat. This simulates them throwing the pila as part of the charge.

This would remove any need to keep track of which models have lost their shields.
 
Coincidentally I was reading The Bull and the Spear by Micheal Moorcock (again) last night, and Corum was fighting off a bunch of Hounds of Kerenos - the Mabden both ran out of throwing spears and Corum threw his two-handed great axe at a wolf. The gritty cinematic skirmish play style that such narrative evoke is really cool.
 
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