Space Crusade returns!

[Stormbringer]

I should clarify

I should clarify... I though that in a boob-marine thread, "grabbing my pitchfork" was a euphemism

Yeah, I got that.

 

[zoggin-eck]

The thing is though, I already own a copy of Space Crusade. This new one just isn't different enough to justify buying...



The game designer who wrote the original, Stephen Baker? Is he ever interviewed by oldhammer blog dudes? I'd love to hear his opinion

Yeah, I got that.

Don't mind me! Feeling particularly slow, lack of sleep due to a baby

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Space Rusade!

The models aren't for me, but the carry-on about this game on other forums is pretty amusing!

It certainly seems to have brought out the Puritan brigade with their torches and pitchforks!

Noticed that happening more and more in recent years, even on forums that traditionally have a somewhat T 'n A attitude. Are we seeing a shift in what's considered acceptable in the gaming and miniatures world? I'm not sure. It does seem that the pitchforks are selectively jabbed at some projects/manufacturers whilst ignoring others. Sexism and misogyny are terms that appear to only apply to 'crap' miniatures!

Well there you go, nerds mixing up 'bad' with 'I don't like it' again! Add to that the rent-a-troll-brigade and ta-da! Internet shitstorm.

The gaming world contains multiple different markets, just like comics or movies. There's a bit of a category error that occurs when someone sees a "for mature audiences" product and confuses it with a "for family gaming" product. There was a problem (becoming less so, Oathsworn, Red Box Games, Otherworld, Statuesque, etc.) that the only representation of females were of the Heavy Metal variety. Reduction of choice is mysoginistic, which is where the puritans are aiming at.

BTW when I mean Heavy Metal I mean:

or is that 'Eavy Metal?

I guess so.

 

[Stormbringer]

I've not checked out the discussion about this product across other forums and Facebook, so I might be misinformed, but judging by the comments posted here about what's been said elsewhere, I'm surprised (though probably shouldn't be -- it is The Internet after all) that the negative focus has largely been on the cleavage of the models and not the misappropriation of the sacred name of Space Crusade!

When the so-called HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Edition was exploding out of control a couple of years ago, all the moralistic Internet outrage was about the illegitimacy of its claim to the name of HeroQuest. The most hilarious narrative that emerged from the chaos was the idea the that all the opposition to it was a racist campaign against the Spanish.

This time, apparently, it's all about the breasts...

 

[Asslessman]

But still referencing the biomechanical aspects, the biomech, cyber, alien-skulls and junk-bot bits don't seem to have come together cohesively in the way Giger may have done (but then very few artists can). But maybe a more monochrome paint-job would help. The cuts and splits on the face make Prodos model look more like a mask than skin, still, very good sculpting on that, albeit digital giggery-pokery.

So in some ways it is a reinvention of the first Space Crusade, also note, the Prodos have bothered to make their figures actual crusaders

The biomechgirls seem like a crossover between Starcraft and Akira :

 

[weismonsters]

I must confess to likeing some of those miniatures. The terminator with a bare ass was a bridge too far for me though.

 

[bulldoglopez]

It's pretty silly, but its no different than any of the T&A comics and games I loved as a kid.

The SJW outrage on the facebook page is a little ridiculous. I mean... come on... everyone loves bewbs.

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Between the genuine SJWs and those that think womens bodies are shameful things and must be hidden away from view at all times, Produs is doing us all a service by keeping the maniacs away from the Rubens

JB - I'm pretty sure Starcraft are just riffing on Giger as well.

Weird tho, come to think of it, the majority of people I've ever met who are really into Giger are women.

The Akria reference is good, but the genius of Tetsuo's arm is that asymmetry, wheras the Produs Feminator is just bulk, he has this frail, human form juxtaposed by the monstrous arm. Would make a cool mini concept.

This time, apparently, it's all about the breasts...

Perhaps there's some context for this, The Mary Sue published an article in January with the lovely title In the Grim Darkness of Warhammer 40k‘s Far Future, There Are Only Men, and It’s Terrible The story got 1506 comments, not that it really means a great deal, but it's an indicator. Warhammer fans across the internet fell over each other in defensive fansplaining, apologism and accusing each other of SJWery/feminazism/mysogynistic-body-hating and all the associated #nerdrage. Then, a matter of weeks later, Prodos turn up with a huge bunch of competently (but not exquisitely) sculpted, action-posed, semi-naked, sci-fantasy fem-marines, and I'm guessing a lot of the reaction is just a knock-on effect or continuation of the same thing.

 

[Fimm McCool]

JB - I'm pretty sure Starcraft are just riffing on Giger as well.

And why not, Giger is amazing.

 

[Aiteal]

Between the genuine SJWs and those that think womens bodies are shameful things and must be hidden away from view at all times, Produs is doing us all a service by keeping the maniacs away from the Rubens

nahhhhhhhh
The designs are boring and lazy, bike riders that are like a freeze frame from the Tron Girl video and underboobed power armour. Not everything is part of the kulturkampf, sometimes things are just uninspired shit.

 

[dieselmonkey]

Between the genuine SJWs and those that think womens bodies are shameful things and must be hidden away from view at all times, Produs is doing us all a service by keeping the maniacs away from the Rubens

nahhhhhhhh
The designs are boring and lazy, bike riders that are like a freeze frame from the Tron Girl video and underboobed power armour. Not everything is part of the kulturkampf, sometimes things are just uninspired shit.

^That.

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Nah, people aren't screaming that Produs are driving women out of wargaming because their designs are just too predictable.

Meanwhile... the trolls have shamed the Produs-lady into putting more clothes on for the PG audience.

There you go, all the dirty bad naughty bits safely hidden away.

JB - I'm pretty sure Starcraft are just riffing on Giger as well.

And why not, Giger is amazing.

Yes, yes he was. Someone should be doing what he did, but in wargaming miniatures.

 

[Aiteal]

There you go, all the dirty bad naughty bits safely hidden away.

Now now Zhu
You can't poke fun at people holding up these minis for the reason why women invariably don't wargame, and then demonstrate the same sweeping attitude and everyone who doesn't like them of prudishness.
The minis are dull, and badly executed, Kev White can sculpt, he can sculpt half naked and completely naked women without tipping into 14 year old wank fantasy.
Brother Vinni can sculpt and his torture/slave girls are just plain creepy.
Kingdom death minis are darker than Brother Vinni's stuff, but can pull it off imho (no pun intended) because they have a certain otherworldly anime/Clive Barker quality.

These are just dull, like bad fan fiction from one of 4chan's sillier forums fed into a 3D printer, and at the end of the day a business decision/gamble that hasn't paid off.

 

[Asslessman]

JB - I'm pretty sure Starcraft are just riffing on Giger as well.

Sure, the only problem (for me), is that Prodos precisely steals the interpretation Blizzard made of it (to make it more mainstream) rather than make their own or.... wait... do something new !
GW did that in its time, first they got all inspired by Giger for their nids and stealers and then they started to make their designs very close to Stracraft's, now they've come back to a sort of middle ground but that's similar.

 

[weismonsters]

She is still quite vulnerable to a headshot.

also her hair could get caught up in the shoulder joint.

 

[Erny]

You know there is nothing wrong with being a 14 year old male and wanting some "wankfest" or "fanservice" or what ever the current derrogatory term for being 14 and horny is. If they have exicuted it badly, so what. And are miniatures like these really keeping women out of war gaming? Storm in a tea cup just like everything else on facebook/twitter/life before 35.

 

[Aiteal]

You know there is nothing wrong with being a 14 year old male and wanting some "wankfest" or "fanservice"

True, I enjoy an episode of Spartacus as much as the next man/14 year old boy.
But I dare say in 20 years time we'll look at these minis the same way some of us now look at the citadel pygmies, with a sharp intake of breath between our teeth and a head shake whilst saying nahhhhhhhhh. Post gamergate world aside, I still think they're shit in concept and execution, which is probably my major problem with them tbh.

 

[Erny]

I think there is a big difference, the pygmies play to derogatory and damaging stereotypes. Playing to the, "male gaze", is only damaging when that’s all that is available, that simply isn't a fact of life even in the small world of miniatures (pun intended). Diversity in all things includes all things and so not all heterosexual male desire has to go out the window, there is a place for everything and a bit of T&A really isn't misogynist, just a natural expression of some humans sexuality. I'd hate to go back to a time where free and moderate expression of such a fundamental part of who we are was oppressed. These miniatures fail for several reasons but really not for showing a bit of boob please tell me we haven’t got that reactionary and authoritarian yet.

 

[Aiteal]

To be fair, the argument that these are a derogatory/damaging stereotype is just as valid, the certainly are not something I would ever (even if I liked the minis) feel comfortable popping onto the table or even have on my shelf in a house where I'm bringing up a daughter. The 'male gaze' is grand, Kev White/Hasslefree does it very well I feel, because I think his sculpts convey a sense of appreciation for the female form, they have hips, curves, tits and bums. Not semi spherical silicon porn star tits at right angles to emaciated lower torsos.
To drag Zhu back into this, I'll confess a real fondness for his article on the old Amazons. Perhaps one of my favourite oldhammer articles, and certainly a cut above the 'look at this heavy metal article from 1988' blogs that most of us would pop out. Because it gave a nice run down on the whole anarcho-feminist thing, and lead me to appreciate (as a closet Crass fan) the minis in a different light. So when I'm painting them up I'll have Penis Envy playing in the background and sing along to Eve Libertine just to get in the mood. The minis are a little rough, but the Blanche artwork is perfect, because Blanche invariably never went for the easy tits and arse and blow up doll mouth.

As far as being authoritarian about them, I would agree. I wouldn't 'ban this filth', I'd rather just chuckle at anyone that plopped them onto a table. They are certainly a prime candidate for the 'your terrible hobby' blog. I dare say they will bomb badly, and hopefully the company puts a bit more thought into their next project.

 

[Erny]

Well I wouldn't let my 5 year old play with them for sure but then neither would he get a hold of my blood thirsters. I've yet to give my eldest at 7 a book by Usborne on the second world war becuase it mentions in passing the holocaust, he isn't ready to understand that sort of evil yet. Point being everything is context, if when he's 14 he wants miniatures like this or great hunks with tiny speedos and massive packets I'd say knock yourself out. I would point out the bad sculpts but plastic boobies are not anywhere near whats wrong with the world today.

Talk about bad sculpts for sure but by the sound of things a bunch of gaming nerds have just recieved a shit storm of hate over something geeky they made to try to make people happy. Hopefully they shrug it off.