AranaszarSzuur
Member
I think it's the editor's fault. I can't stand her painting style and it looks pretty much like painting style of someone who would ruin colours of an oldhammer book just like that.
RT reprint available online from GW for a bit
- Thread starter Eric
- Start date
Eric
Administrator
I very much doubt they photocopied the book and scanned photocopies. I would imagine it was much like the RT one where they just undid the binding on a copy. GW certainly had copies of the RoC books as they were in their museum once when I was there (I remember wincing at the "GW Archive" sticker slapped on it).
That said having compared the two next to each other there are colour differences in the print. RoC:STD has a two tone black. The titles and page numbers are a more saturated black than the border art. That wasn't the case in the reprint. I think I noticed less in the LaTD book when I had them out side by side. Anyhow those copies in are in Austraila now so harder for me to do much side-by-side.
I often find modern "print on demand" type printing seems to err on the darker side of things, maybe these were all done on a POD production line for cost rather than with plates?
That said having compared the two next to each other there are colour differences in the print. RoC:STD has a two tone black. The titles and page numbers are a more saturated black than the border art. That wasn't the case in the reprint. I think I noticed less in the LaTD book when I had them out side by side. Anyhow those copies in are in Austraila now so harder for me to do much side-by-side.
I often find modern "print on demand" type printing seems to err on the darker side of things, maybe these were all done on a POD production line for cost rather than with plates?
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MichaelStockin
Member
I don't think they copied the copies.
I think the new reprints are copies of originals.
My reprint is certainly not as clear or crisp or as light as the originals.
I don't imagine they had the original plates or the new ones would be as nice as the originals.
I can't imagine they made new plates as that would cost a bomb and they would be as nice as the originals.
The originals are much better quality in terms of production values, it is just do you want a beat up original or a brand new lower resolution version?
MichaelStockin
Member
I don't understand, what editor? Have there been edits to the new ones? What painting style, the images are the original ones?
Eric
Administrator
I've still got one picture I took when I was trying to show the print difference, but it didn't really come out very well.
Certainly in flicking through the reprints they seemed quite acceptable (at least the ones I had at the time). I know in the RT one there are some pages where there is a bit of ghosting from material on the backs of pages showing up in the scans, so I expect there are artefacts in the RoC ones as well. Would be interesting to know who did the work on those as I don't think that's out there.
Getting hold of STD seems much easier these days. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186876715143
for instance, but LoTD is always harder to source, but there were copies going before Christmas for about £50-70.
Certainly in flicking through the reprints they seemed quite acceptable (at least the ones I had at the time). I know in the RT one there are some pages where there is a bit of ghosting from material on the backs of pages showing up in the scans, so I expect there are artefacts in the RoC ones as well. Would be interesting to know who did the work on those as I don't think that's out there.
Getting hold of STD seems much easier these days. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186876715143
for instance, but LoTD is always harder to source, but there were copies going before Christmas for about £50-70.
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MichaelStockin
Member
Yeah I have that in my LoTD.
Right defo time to check out ebay.
Your comparison there seems quite nice TBH.
MichaelStockin
Member
hmmmm faulty memory?
Just looked at my LoTD, it is not that bad actually.
The text in the grey boxes is not great but yeah, I take it back, it is not as bad as I remembered.
I blame Ranald.
Just looked at my LoTD, it is not that bad actually.
The text in the grey boxes is not great but yeah, I take it back, it is not as bad as I remembered.
I blame Ranald.
Eric
Administrator
Totally they are. Sorry I didn't realise that wasn't well known. All three "reprints" are digital scans of copies of the print runs of the originals that GW had "lying around". They were then cleaned up a bit on the computer and the resulting (rather large raster images of each page) whacked over to China for printing.
They will certainly have lost some nuance. All the halftone and so forth for instance, that can end up being "urgh" when combined with excessive digital compression. And as mentioned I can clearly see the borders were not the same black pass as some of the text so they were presumably on the other plates for each page.
My copy of the John Blanche book from Wombat I think is too dark on the pictures and that is a "print on demand". It's hard to know how many inks they use in the commercial systems, it certainly doesn't have to just be CYMK in a printer, commercial printers sometimes have additional inks to help with quirky colours.
The printing plates will be long gone - the printer will have had them anyway, probably with an agreement to retain for a while for reprints. I expect given digital printing (ie posh laser printing) is run of the mill (haha) it'll just be done like that.
Well you have both, that's the answer
Ideally a few copies of each just to make sure you're well covered no matter which room in the house you re in! Then again I quite like repairing the spines on old books and having patched up three of four copies of various RoC books for people over the years it can be quite fun to make them "reasonable again". Bit of wear and tear only adds to the charm!
MichaelStockin
Member
Well now I am confused.
Scans of the original books or scans of scans of the original books?
Eric
Administrator
Well above link for Slaves! That auction had a day or two to run. Lost, well I'd wait and keep the eyes peeled (probably a table for that in the books)
I remember thinking looking through the reprints (or at least the ones I had then - they were bought to send overseas) that I'd have been quite happy with them. Certainly I'd not have felt hard done by having paid £40 for each. Being a picky old sod when it comes to print quality the reprints felt like printer prints rather than prints, but then again that is what they are, so... dur! I'd also have insisted things like the blacks were restored in the number roundels for instance, but it'd have been a lot of work. Paper selection also impacts the feel, but how far do you go printer will print on what they have and there is nothing wrong with the new clean white paper! They are not going to feel quite like the originals, but then the originals were often (at least LoD) twice the price anyway! But it sounds like there might be more variation in print quality between books than might otherwise be expected sadly.
Eric
Administrator
Scans of the original books. So one generation.
MichaelStockin
Member
I realised that just now. I was not picking up on your use of the words copies vs scans.
I will go away now, sorry for chatting rot folks.
I will go away now, sorry for chatting rot folks.
ManicMan
Member
Okay, right.. an Editor doesn't just edit.. they also would be in charge of production, to a degree of the work, choosing a source, or picking someone to do that, refusing or accepting the quality of the copies, the final work, picking some of the stuff like paper stock quality (to a degree) etc.. I'm trying to think of how to explain an editors job in such a thing to someone outside of a comics or magazine or books field... erm.. Ah hell, I'll cheat.. Can't say I know who the hell she is but this is a pretty fair run down of an editor for a novel:
What does a book editor do? | Rachel Rowlands, Editor & Author
Ever wondered what a book editor does with their time? I think most people are curious about this, even non-bookish people and non-writers.
racheljrowlands.com
AranaszarSzuur
Member
How GW remastered the Warhammer 40k Rogue Trader rulebook
YouTuber and former Warhammer studio member Louise Sugden explains how she painstakingly digitized the original Warhammer 40k rulebook for a modern reprint.
www.wargamer.com
MichaelStockin
Member
Cheers, the article suggests they kept it the same as the original though?
Taliesin Kincaid
Member
I think this response lacks some perspective - "ruin" is a pretty strong word for being a little darker and having slightly different colour correction, even if we accept that the reprint is inferior. Ultimately, as Louise has outlined, she was entrusted with the project because she was known internally as being particularly passionate about this era of Warhammer, which she's definitely demonstrated in her online presence. Generally I just don't think it's productive to go around casting aspersions at an individual creative, especially considering the nasty history of women being accused of "ruining" beloved games (e.g. Lorraine Williams, Gamergate). Perhaps the proportionate reaction is to sigh, bemoan that GW didn't reproduce the book using a higher-quality process, and move on.
Also, on the point of painting styles and attitudes toward colour, whether you like her painting style or not doesn't seem relevant to me. I'm sure it's true that the editor's personal artistic view of colour will influence how they reproduce a book, but I think it's misguided to say that her view on colour is inherently less faithful than yours. At the end of the day, without a comprehensive essay from Rick Priestley and several others, going after authorial intent is chasing ghosts.
Sorry if this came across as argumentative or unproductive, I just really dislike this way of looking at it.
AranaszarSzuur
Member
You said nothing of substance and everything probably boils down to this paragraph. Nothing to do with gender, I don't think GW actually has any painters left that would appreciate images of old miniatures and see them as something worth preserving and displaying.
Don't worry, I won't be seeing your posts any more.