Retro Review-Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader

Scalene":xwt3b92t said:
I wouldn't describe them as 'broken', but there are some rules we changed because they either didn't make sense, or didn't relate to reality. Here's a few:
1. The deviation roll for area effect renders anything with a large template almost useless. We roll to hit (normal BS roll + modifiers) and then it deviates if you miss).
2. Hand-to-hand combat isn't deadly enough (we had a couple of marines fighting for about ten turns once before one actually landed a wound), plus I don't see why you can't use a small arms such as bolters in close combat. In paintball I've shot people at point blank before and it's not that difficult.
3. Armour is a bit weird - flak is a common armour, but you save on a 6 and almost every weapon has at least -1 save, giving you nothing. Why would anyone bother wearing it? Even powered armour is a bit weak - save one third of a typical small arms hit. It's a lot of kit to be wearing for that.
4. Virus grenades are just crazy powerful if your opponent isn't in sealed suits - they aren't suitable for any points value based game.
5. Reserve move is a bit fiddly - running for double move instead of firing is a more manageable way to deal with this.

It clearly wasn't designed for tournament play, even with the lists in Chapter Approved, so I don't think you can criticise it for that. I think of it like a classic car. A thing of artistic endeavour and beauty. Later cars might go faster or be more fuel efficient, but that's not what it's all about.

I like your mods to the rules Scalene, made me laugh from a few of them :lol:

1. Didn't they change the dev rules a bit later on? I thought I remember you could use your BS to help overcome the dev? But I think your fix is by far better. There was no point trying to aim a large blast radius at the desired target coz it was never gunna hit :lol:
2. Isn't shooting at close range banned in paint ball? Or if it's not, I thought it was at least considered "ungentlemanly" :grin:
3. It's just like Storm trooper armour yeah? :lol:

That last point you made is very true, fck the fuel effient plastic throw away cars! The old lead sleds have class in spades :grin:

ramshackle_curtis":xwt3b92t said:
Whats to grumble about when Rick Priestly is stood there complimenting your army?! Rules question, everyone shouts "Rick!". Bloody hilarious. More please!

Could he remember the rules? actually, he must have had sooooo many queries over the years from spotty teenagers about this rule & that rule that he probably know's the game of by heart yeah? :grin:


For me, when I was playing RT back in the day, I was playing with a school friend who had a very bad play ethic. He had to win, would argue over the rules till he was blue in the face, even if they were completely illogical :( So yeah, a GM in our case would have been great, but we didn't have the luxury of knowing any other nerds to play RT with back in primary school. It was only twenty or so years later that he began to change his ways....slightly. Even today he has a hard time being fair, the need to win is ever present.
 

Grumdril

Member
Scalene":1wqhyyqz said:
I wouldn't describe them as 'broken', but there are some rules we changed because they either didn't make sense, or didn't relate to reality. Here's a few:
1. ...
2. Hand-to-hand combat isn't deadly enough (we had a couple of marines fighting for about ten turns once before one actually landed a wound), plus I don't see why you can't use a small arms such as bolters in close combat. In paintball I've shot people at point blank before and it's not that difficult.
...

You can use standard weapons in close combat... they just count as improvised unless they have a combat accessory (or bayonet in other words).

I'm glad to have no experience of real combat but from what I understand this is reasonable, if you're in proper close combat (e.g. imagine you're fighting someone inside a lift) then anything rifle-sized is pretty ineffective for its intended purpose. But like I've said I've zero actual experience of this. I'm assuming the big difference is that the people you were paintballing with weren't actively trying to kill you (or vice versa?) :)

Paul / Grumdril
 
Thanks for the review, particularly the pictures! I've had looks through a PDF of 40k: RT before, and the atmosphere, story snippets and illustrations of it are indeed very nice. 40k went out strong at the very start, so strong that someone like me who for lack of experience cannot view Rogue Trader with nostalgia recognize quality very often on par, and sometime superior, to later lavish GW productions. And best of all, it had official space Dwarfs!
 

Scalene

Member
Going down the paintball digression, here's a web page I wrote back in 1999 on what perspectives playing paintball had given me on actual small arms combat:

http://www.warfactory.co.uk/musings/paintball.php

Regarding the shooting people at point blank, you're right, it's discouraged but it did happen from time-to-time. When creeping through thick undergrowth, or in one of the games I played in an abandoned hospital, some of the encounters were at very close range, and your immediate instinct is to fire. Some sites play that you are supposed to shout 'surrender' at that range, but more often than not the person you have crept up on will turn and try to shoot you, so you have no choice. Generally, however, nobody ever gets as close as arm's length without being shot first- I can only think of one or two occasions it happened to me. The odds of anyone getting near enough to an enemy to hit them with a sword without being killed seem very small indeed. Even in WW2 close combat was becoming very rare, and as guns have improved, it has become rarer still.
 

KTG17

Member
When I first discovered Space Marines, it was from an ad in Dragon Magazine for Rogue Trader. I didn't know anything about it, but I loved the beakie marines, and drew them all over the place for a year before someone gave me a couple of the old lead minis. It was still awhile before I actually looked through the books, white dwarf articles and so on, and just thought by then, it was a mess of a system.

I then discovered AT/SM1 and that is what got me into the 40k universe.

I didn't get into Warhammer 40,000 per say, until the 2nd edition box set came out. This is what I had been waiting and didn't know it. Consolidated rules in once place. And we had a lot of fun with that set.

I appreciate Rogue Trader for its place in history, and are even assembling a force of old school plastic beakies painted up as Crimson Fists as a nod to these older days, I can't imagine ever trying to get a group or even a single other player to try it out. I would in a heartbeat if I were part of a club and someone already had everything, but I couldnt lead the effort.
 

Gut007

Member
Scalene":3vq4akla said:
Going down the paintball digression, here's a web page I wrote back in 1999 on what perspectives playing paintball had given me on actual small arms combat:

http://www.warfactory.co.uk/musings/paintball.php

Regarding the shooting people at point blank, you're right, it's discouraged but it did happen from time-to-time. When creeping through thick undergrowth, or in one of the games I played in an abandoned hospital, some of the encounters were at very close range, and your immediate instinct is to fire. info tippmann Some sites play that you are supposed to shout 'surrender' at that range, but more often than not the person you have crept up on will turn and try to shoot you, so you have no choice. Generally, however, nobody ever gets as close as arm's length without being shot first- I can only think of one or two occasions it happened to me. The odds of anyone getting near enough to an enemy to hit them with a sword without being killed seem very small indeed. Even in WW2 close combat was becoming very rare, and as guns have improved, it has become rarer still.
you are exactly right.
 
Mr Papafakis":92oqk8hm said:
1. Didn't they change the dev rules a bit later on? I thought I remember you could use your BS to help overcome the dev? But I think your fix is by far better. There was no point trying to aim a large blast radius at the desired target coz it was never gunna hit :lol:

Since this has been bumped, and in case anyone else is wondering, yes, the rules were updated in the Compendium.

To avoid scatter, you have to roll under (not equal to) your BS. You add any modifiers for the weapon to your ballistic skill. Otherwise it scatters as normal.
Models in the blast radius are hit on a 3+. Any other modifiers are added here instead of to the step above. Cover for example.
 
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