Quest of Thane Tostig (1977) Anniversary edition?

Zarrgon42

Vassal
A while ago I requested help in identifying a early wargame system, with the kind help of this form it was found. The system "Quest of Thane Tostig" was a interesting albeit bare bones thing with few other things like it outside of the later "choose your own roleplay/gamebooks" to really compare it too with its pre-made hero driven skirmish scenarios. For the uninformed its a homage to old Norse sagas and Arthurian tales, a historical fantasy game taking inspiration from Hervor's Saga, Beowulf and the welsh Arthur stories by way of the triads and Mabinogion with visual influence from Frank Frazetta's artwork. The narrative of the scenarios concerns the contents of an alleged manuscript describing the titular quest of Thane Tostig* a contemporary of King Arthur* as he and his war band, Edith the wise woman (magic-user), Cedric (a smith), Gurth (spearman), Beowulf (warrior*), Sigurd (archer*) and Infang (Tostig's dog) as they seek Tostig's ancestral sword, the blood-drinker from the clutches of a witch and her army of orc-like fen sprites.

Other adventures taking place later in his life inculde "the man-eaters Grendel and Grendelham, savage goblins called Scuccas, a two headed giant, winged elf-folk called Scinnas, Myrrdin the wizard, and King Medraut who commands the skeletal ghosts of some Roman legionaries." with Tostig's last adventure being against "Waerferth, a dragon guarding a hoard". Its historically in reguards to gaming, quite the curiousity, a fantasy game predating Reaper, Spacefarers and Lazerburn, in fact the only welknown wargames reguarding non-historical or then contempoary settings I can think of are Chainmail and War for The Ring. Its simple to play and straight forward only about 12 pages long.

Ever coming across it I've had a niggling feeling in the back of my head such as "why didn't it catch on" and being slightly taken with the premise and keep thinking of expansion ideas storywise. A little while ago I saw that it will next year be the game's 50th anniversary so I had thought.

I am considering doing a unofficial fan edition for the anniversary as a PDF and wanted to know if anyone would be interested in joining me in this endevor? I propose it taking the form of a both a "Saga"and "complete edition" containing the original scenario with optional added mechanics alongside scenarios for the decribed but unpenned adventures while claiming to be a later translation of the alledged manuscipt describing Tostig's life from birth to death, the battle against the witch being the opening in mediās rēs as the turning point in his life causing greater and bolder challenges to present themselves before his fate at the dragon Waerferth and a early life detailing his father's death, his rise to thane and preparation for the sword's retrival, topped off with a beastiary section declaring them as "the foes and friends of the incomplete or missing pages" for use in home scenarios.

If you think its a good idea or are interested in collabing please let me know below.








*A title/spelling more commonly used by the norse peoples later in history which makes me wonder if Tostig is inspired by Don Lawrence's Karl The Viking comic and was raised as a vikingr, especially as Tostig was although a popular saxon boys name it was also a norse drived.

*Sort of, any timeline for the arthurian stories place them either a century ahead (later chivalric tradition) or anywhere from 2-5 centuries before (earlier Celtic myths implied to be set before or during Rome) the game's setting 447AD. I am guessing its ment to be 547AD unless they were mistaken but that has a bit of a issue as the strife of cammlann, Athur's final battle takes place 10 years before that. Tostig doesn't seem too old (thane can be inherited as a title) with all other quests taking place after the only one documented so I'm guessing he's either much older then he seems and was a rival or ally of Arthur's or cammlann was his first major battle.

*unclear if he's a younger Beowulf from the legend or a what the manuscript would consider "a historical base" or ancestor for them.

*most likely not the any of the legendary Sigurds.
 
The sprites were led by King Debobmik, he had Blood-Drinker. Hangbeffor, the wonderfully named witch, was his assistant. I recall chatting about the game at Salute one year in Chelsea and apparently the Executioner originally had a name also but I have never seen it confirmed and it is not in Eric Knowles' rulebook.

As it dovetails neatly with my step into "oldhammer" I was planning to get my Thane Tostig set smartened up for a May anniversary game by finishing off rebasing of the models back to original flat card rather than slottas (bad decision on my part when I started collecting these) and painting some more sprites. Then use my 3D dungeon and caverns scenery and play the initial adventure scenarios.
I only own one set of the heroes so have a quandary whether or not to base them on the 40x40mm and 25x20mm required by the rules, The sprites on the smaller bases look OK, if unusual, but the heroes look really naff as the figures are much too small for the big base and don't work with the 1" squares on my scenery. I am tempted to go with 25mm squares for all of them even though it is "wrong".

Interesting piece of triva, A Thane Tostig advert is the first one printed in the very first edition of White Dwarf magazine, top of page inside the front cover.
 
robh said:
The sprites were led by King Debobmik, he had Blood-Drinker. Hangbeffor, the wonderfully named witch, was his assistant. I recall chatting about the game at Salute one year in Chelsea and apparently the Executioner originally had a name also but I have never seen it confirmed and it is not in Eric Knowles' rulebook.

As it dovetails neatly with my step into "oldhammer" I was planning to get my Thane Tostig set smartened up for a May anniversary game by finishing off rebasing of the models back to original flat card rather than slottas (bad decision on my part when I started collecting these) and painting some more sprites. Then use my 3D dungeon and caverns scenery and play the initial adventure scenarios.
I only own one set of the heroes so have a quandary whether or not to base them on the 40x40mm and 25x20mm required by the rules, The sprites on the smaller bases look OK, if unusual, but the heroes look really naff as the figures are much too small for the big base and don't work with the 1" squares on my scenery. I am tempted to go with 25mm squares for all of them even though it is "wrong".

Interesting piece of triva, A Thane Tostig advert is the first one printed in the very first edition of White Dwarf magazine, top of page inside the front cover.
Click to expand...
my bad on the witch I was mostly going off memories as a lot of screencaps for the rulebook are broken on the sites talking about it (or it could just be my overzealous browser settings). I was figuring having a suggested minis page as to my knowledge the line is out of print and I couldn't tell from my searches if they/the game have a rights holder any more or if any of the creators are alive so don't think reprints are possible.

Fimm McCool said:
Sounds like a setting I would have enjoyed. Happy to help out if needed.
Click to expand...
well any help is appreciated what would you be up for?
 
I did some internet searching. (Barry) Minot's Miniatures Armoury produced the miniatures. Lost Minis has pictures which may help with identifying good proxies. David Wood's Dear Tony Blair blog has info on the first & (seemingly unfulfilled) second adventures. Bleaseworld has some proxies. There seems to be a Facebook group for fans of Minot's but it doesn't show anything to me because I'm not a member. According to SoL the minis were sold to Eisenwerk Industries & then most of their stuff was acquired by PewterCraft who are also out of business. Wargames Illustrated 428 had an article about the game but it is out of print. An excerpt.

Good luck with the project!
 
The figure range is for sure out of production but they are not uncommon on eBay (I see them but cannot bid which is infuriating as I would buy more of them).
As mentioned above David Wood is the man to ask about them, his blog has images of all the figures and each of the rulebook and scenario pages. He was also involved in getting Barry Minot's Pendragon range back up. He is the owner of the Little Soldier Company who now have the rights to the old Hinchliffe fantasy range:
thelittlesoldiercompany.co.uk

Hinchliffe Models Fantasy

Hinchliffe Models Fantasy - a re-release of the classic old school miniature range released by Hinchliffe Models Ltd in the late 70's.
thelittlesoldiercompany.co.uk thelittlesoldiercompany.co.uk

I have all the figures from the first quest, easily enough for a game, and the rulebook. I used to have a gallery of them on the Displaced Miniatures site but that is long gone now.
The Minot Thane Tostig figures, and the much later Cell Entertainment 1999 range are my only excursions into the land of collecting minis.
 
Ah yes.. We know of the Hinchliffe figures and why... erm.. Forgot his name, sold the range off.. I don't know too much as not personal friends but there are people with more knowledge.

anyway, my contact with David have always gone well and I would say he is a nice guy and TLSC a good place.
 
Fimm McCool said:
Who has the rights for them and are they worth trying to revive?
Click to expand...
The last registered owner was Wargames Design Workshop (although they never had them in production) and they ceased trading last year. Some of their ranges were sold to Lamming Miniatures but apparently the Minot ranges were not amongst those. So presumably the rights still reside with one of the ex owners.
As to worth resurrecting, much though I love them, probably not.
 
I'm very excited about this! I first came across Thane Tostig when going through old issues of Battle magazine and I've periodically searched for stuff related to it on ebay etc. From a hobby perspective AND from the perspective of the theme/ history it hits the perfect sweet spot of my interests. I'd love to be involved in one way or another.

As per the previous post. Wargames Design Workshop (details here: https://wargames-directory.com/wargames-design-workshop/) were producing the Pendragon Studios range by Barry Minot, though not the Thane Tostig miniatures. These were available very recently - maybe even a year ago? but yes I've just checked and their website is down now so I guess they're not active anymore.

P.S. Dan Mersey published an article revisiting Thane Tostig in Wargames Illustrated #428. I think I kept that issue because of that article
 
Fimm McCool said:
What do you need? I can take photos, do layout, advise on printing?
Click to expand...
anything really, I don't know if printing would be possible as I don't know if the copyright to the game is still valid as I think 40 years of non enforcement can cause it to fall into public domain but I'm not sure, I sort of gathered it would be a free PDF with personal prints affair. I studied game design though I'm out of practise due to unfortunate factors so I would appreciate any contributed scenarios to improve diversity of play or advice/playtest etc. I'm not artistically capable so I'm going to looking for art contributions. I have a project plan/structure if you'd like me to post it?

ManicMan said:
Ah yes.. We know of the Hinchliffe figures and why... erm.. Forgot his name, sold the range off.. I don't know too much as not personal friends but there are people with more knowledge.

anyway, my contact with David have always gone well and I would say he is a nice guy and TLSC a good place.
Click to expand...
would I be able to run a draft email pasted you as I'm before I send it as I would worry about potentially wasting his time/don't know how approachable he is. I mostly want to know about the system rights as having the minis moulds still around would be amazing, but I'm guessing there long gone from my experience trying to track down fantasy warlord goblin pig riders, there just from the 90s released in several markets and there lost media, a line from the 70s that as far as I know never left the UK that's gone through several companies has the odds stacked against them. I'm a bit worried about potentially offending the creators (granted there still alive, I can't find any info on if they are) with a fan remake and if possible would like the matter cleared, I'd still make it unless served papers as I feel the milestone needs to be celebrated and if after its done and they take issue I will shoulder any fallout.
 
Zarrgon42 said:
I think 40 years of non enforcement can cause it to fall into public domain but I'm not sure
Click to expand...
Nope. 70 years from the death of the author is when written works become public domain. Bits of them can be registered as trademarks and held for longer if the company desires, but I doubt that's the case in this instance.
 
Fimm McCool said:
Nope. 70 years from the death of the author is when written works become public domain. Bits of them can be registered as trademarks and held for longer if the company desires, but I doubt that's the case in this instance.
Click to expand...
ah heard of some cases where lack of use or clear demarcation of rights can result in challenges on but those must be either a american thing or only for special cases
 
What are you looking to reproduce from original/existing IP?

There is not one single owner who could give permission as far as I can tell, the Rules were only ever published in one booklet by Eric Knowles through his shop "New Model Army" with printing and distribution through Tony Anderson at Navwar, sadly both Eric and Tony have passed in recent years. The rules featured the names and imagery of the characters with the consent of Barry Minot. Just as with the Minifigs "Valley of the Four Winds" range the figures came first, before any stories, rules or games were developed.
The confusing journey of rights for the figures is already mentioned.

If starting from scratch an "homage" would be an easier option; developing a detailed Thane Tostig scenario for a modern set of rules that incorporates RPG into skirmish using figures people will already have in their collections or could get easily. Vikings vs Goblins?
Sellswords and Spellslingers would be very easy to adapt and is a well known and popular set of rules or the GW Middle Earth Strategy Battle game which is probably a better combat system but lacks the searching narrative aspects.
That way you stand a decent chance of getting players to put some figures on the table, stand alone scenarios or simple linked campaigns are always popular if presented as a "no preparation necessary" type thing.
 
Fimm McCool said:
Or, y'know, I can think of another suitable ruleset already based in that kind of word... ;)
Click to expand...
I LOVE The Woods, as you know. but at the same time, I think something really close to the spirit of Anglo-Saxon mythology would be a bit different. by which I mean, you've made your own composite world, I think "fantasy historical" actually within that historical world is different.
 
:)
I would have picked the warband basis of Shivershield personally. The Fey would make great substitutes for sprites.

The first part of the Tostig scenario features 30 sprites in 5 units, one of "Guard" each with a command. The second 18 different sprites in 3 units again with command.
Finding games with mechanics that balance 5 vs 50 or so is challenging. The original rules get around it by loading the heroes with up to 50 hits/wounds/hp vs a solitary 1 for the sprites. Effective at allowing the heroes to remain standing but leads to a lot of pointless die rolling by the sprite player.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top