Fighelm
Baron
Me or him. Red doesn't suit me
Perry Twins....The Empire!
- Thread starter Fighelm
- Start date
Brother Meredith
Lord
Eric
Administrator
I'd say the LoTR films are a very good screenplay based on the novels by and large with the changes working well for the screen. Although it has been some years since I last read LoTR so I dare say my rose-tints might at least be perched on my forehead! The Hobbit on the other hand is a poor screenplay based on the novel where they tried to pad it out beyond the capacity of the story and much as it might have been nice to visually return to Middle Earth the story was let down by that padding. As to the source material much as I love LoTR and Tolkien's dedication to world building and language I seem to recall bits of the actual books dragging on a bit, the chase for Pippin and Merry at the start of the Two Towers I seem to remember went on forever. So in many ways I probably owe him more for laying some of the foundations everyone else built their crazy fantasy worlds on. Anyhow much as a good rant on the good and bad of film adaptations might be I'd best not derail too much more...
So Perry Steam tanks hey? Interesting. Well I guess we knew from subsequent events they had an unhealthy interest in destructive war machines...
Fighelm
Baron
Bringing it back on point, Eric.So Perry Steam tanks hey? Interesting. Well I guess we knew from subsequent events they had an unhealthy interest in destructive war machines...
... to be fair the little outline sketch I saw makes it look like a steampunk laundry iron. But, yes, a steam tank defined. Was a huge deviation away from, say, the historical based (hussite) Empire warwagon, more into the realm of da vinci's madcap war machines.
Fimm McCool
Lord
I lost interest in the films before they got to Rivendell. They had such promise, amazing artists, great locations, wonderful music, talented modelmakers... just god awful direction and script writing.
Michael Stockin
Lord
I think I managed to watch all 3 when they hit streaming channels. I did not get past the party at Bilbos house in the Hobbit.
Give me Ralph Bakshi anyday.
Give me Ralph Bakshi anyday.
Brother Meredith
Lord
The Hobbit trilogy was clearly an attempt to recapture the commercial success of the LotR films. Enjoyed the spectacle again, but didn’t watch the first one at the cinema after the criticism and only picked it up on DVD from a charity shop.
The second and third ones were fun, but not really the game changing awe of watching the previous trilogy.
Have not seen the The Rings of Power or anime style film, but sure even they have some merit…
The second and third ones were fun, but not really the game changing awe of watching the previous trilogy.
Have not seen the The Rings of Power or anime style film, but sure even they have some merit…
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Fighelm
Baron
Cynics, the lot of you! Although I'd agree with most of the points above (esp. the commercial grab...).
I guess it did spread Tolkien to a wider audience, so take it or leave it. I started reading the books at 11yrs old. Hobbit first (my Mums copy), then LOTR, Lost Tales, then The Silmarillion. The differences to story in these scripts not lost on me, but films are commercial endeavours, interpretations, and vehicles for the actors. In the end the (book) stories themselves are 'make believe' by Prof. Tolkien - an analogous mish-mash of distracted scholarly endeavours (of course Anglo-Saxon heavily dusted over) + redolent of the ww1 generational horror he witnessed 1st hand as an ambulance driver. Peter Jackson just inverted and reinvented using his tools, I guess, of an original way to create a mythology based on British folklore & history. I don't particularly love the films (liked the Ralph B animation in the day), but my nephew neices and own children did, that opened a door to them and into Tolkiens fantasy. ps Frodo just got annoying rather than tragic in the third film.
I guess it did spread Tolkien to a wider audience, so take it or leave it. I started reading the books at 11yrs old. Hobbit first (my Mums copy), then LOTR, Lost Tales, then The Silmarillion. The differences to story in these scripts not lost on me, but films are commercial endeavours, interpretations, and vehicles for the actors. In the end the (book) stories themselves are 'make believe' by Prof. Tolkien - an analogous mish-mash of distracted scholarly endeavours (of course Anglo-Saxon heavily dusted over) + redolent of the ww1 generational horror he witnessed 1st hand as an ambulance driver. Peter Jackson just inverted and reinvented using his tools, I guess, of an original way to create a mythology based on British folklore & history. I don't particularly love the films (liked the Ralph B animation in the day), but my nephew neices and own children did, that opened a door to them and into Tolkiens fantasy. ps Frodo just got annoying rather than tragic in the third film.
Fighelm
Baron
symphonicpoet
Moderator
I think I screamed my way through about the first half of a private screening of Fellowship. A very good friend tricked me into watching The Two Towers by asking me to work a show and neglecting to say what show. I was babysitting our sound board. I'm just glad the balcony was closed, because my language was . . . colorful. I believe my friend Tim, who quite loved the movies, said he knew when I was really upset with the thing, because that's the only time I didn't say anything at all. Dear god I couldn't stand them. I say this with complete seriousness: I prefer the Bakshi versions on every possible level. I'm supremely glad to know I'm not alone. Yes, the directing and scriptwriting were . . . very Jackson. Which is maybe only a very small step better than JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson.I lost interest in the films before they got to Rivendell. They had such promise, amazing artists, great locations, wonderful music, talented modelmakers... just god awful direction and script writing.
Eric
Administrator
I'd been wondering about re-reading the books for a while. I'm starting to feel I really should and then maybe subject the family to the 12 hours of films again so I can more confidently speak on the matter! That said I'm a big fan of Dune and I also like the 1984 Dune film different as the two might be in places, so maybe I'm just good at cognitive dissonance?!
Fighelm
Baron
Do it, the books are great, fantastical rambling stories. I mean at one time the LoTR was on the A level Syllabus I believe. I remember reading The Hobbit again in my senior school second year (1984) that was also on the curriculum.
Fimm McCool
Lord
Just listen to the BBC radio play, that's peak LotR to me. Great voice acting, wonderful music and the freedom of your own visualisation.
Brother Meredith
Lord
What don’t you like about the films @symphonicpoet? 🤔
Fighelm
Baron
I can understand the criticism levelled at scriptwriting & directing of the films and now from a distance...I'd agree, not fond of P Jackson myself and the overall 'product' following a vaguest essence of the book. But flipside of this I can appreciate:
a) It got done. It had to appeal to a wide audience (of varying ages, backgrounds, social sets), around the world;
b) To become the hit it was, for the awards and to open the door to (fantasy & cinematic escapism for) all those ppl;
c). Begrudgingly admire P Jackson, the actors, and his production crew who worked undoubtedly well as a team, who all pulled it all together to make a grandiose cinematic experience for all;
d) Don't see the Tolkien estate moaning about it all despite the hacking of it all, the silly dialogue, 'humour' (humbug!) & to squeeze it into 3x feature movies;
e) Most modern films /series are based on story's with only the faintest whisper and colouring of the original.
Sweeping statements? Yes maybe, but credit where credit due to P Jackson, live & let live, ad nauseam. Bakeshi's film I liked but it ran out of money, time, and abruptly 'stopped', an unfinished piece. Bakeshi seemed to have beef with P Jackson for some reason. Professional jealousy at the worst. It's telling his animator didn't(!)
Like art, architecture, music - you can't please everyone, all the time (some of time... or even anytime for that matter). And I will say, like all the creative arts, there's always going to be a fair bit of (often even inverted) snobbery levelled from certain quarters. And those who follow the bell ringers.
a) It got done. It had to appeal to a wide audience (of varying ages, backgrounds, social sets), around the world;
b) To become the hit it was, for the awards and to open the door to (fantasy & cinematic escapism for) all those ppl;
c). Begrudgingly admire P Jackson, the actors, and his production crew who worked undoubtedly well as a team, who all pulled it all together to make a grandiose cinematic experience for all;
d) Don't see the Tolkien estate moaning about it all despite the hacking of it all, the silly dialogue, 'humour' (humbug!) & to squeeze it into 3x feature movies;
e) Most modern films /series are based on story's with only the faintest whisper and colouring of the original.
Sweeping statements? Yes maybe, but credit where credit due to P Jackson, live & let live, ad nauseam. Bakeshi's film I liked but it ran out of money, time, and abruptly 'stopped', an unfinished piece. Bakeshi seemed to have beef with P Jackson for some reason. Professional jealousy at the worst. It's telling his animator didn't(!)
Like art, architecture, music - you can't please everyone, all the time (some of time... or even anytime for that matter
). And I will say, like all the creative arts, there's always going to be a fair bit of (often even inverted) snobbery levelled from certain quarters. And those who follow the bell ringers.
Fighelm
Baron
Oh and well done the Perry Twins for getting on the act as movie extras.
Anyway, back to... The Empire! They released some more notebook sketches today via fb. And true to form there's various prelims of exosquats, knuckle dragging orcs, human troop types, one sexy svelte lady with a big double ax, a random empire cannon, priest/monks with firearms/flintlock rifles etc etc...and also scribbled on the SAME pages: a bloke with a Tricorn hat (🇺🇸 revolution?) and what looks like cannon crew in greatcoats. Madly Historical FOREVER!!! 😂
Anyway, back to... The Empire! They released some more notebook sketches today via fb. And true to form there's various prelims of exosquats, knuckle dragging orcs, human troop types, one sexy svelte lady with a big double ax, a random empire cannon, priest/monks with firearms/flintlock rifles etc etc...and also scribbled on the SAME pages: a bloke with a Tricorn hat (🇺🇸 revolution?) and what looks like cannon crew in greatcoats. Madly Historical FOREVER!!! 😂
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