How do you feel about converting old miniatures?

[Geroak II]

* Not enough space to include whole answer, so here it is:

"It's fine to fix broken minis and/or to add not-original bits as long as they don't affect original sculpt (for example: adding a pouch from some other kit or using a different shield than original miniature came with)"​

What I'm trying to say here is that if miniature is stripped, all excess stuff added to it comes off and you are left with original, unmodified miniature.

Right, so I'm curious how others view this. I feel like there's this prejudice that oldhammer-hobbyists are rather conservative when it comes to converting old miniatures. What's your take on this topic?

I'm in the 'anything goes' camp and often convert miniatures, both old and new. Sometimes it's to refine or "fix" old sculpt or not perfect casting and other times it's just to make miniature stand out and have more of a personality or a story to them.
Not so much conversion as it's hidden away, but I also usually cut slot tab off and pin miniature to base if sculpt allows this (ie. both feet are on the ground and ankles are not too skinny to be drilled through.) I know some see even this as heresy most foul.

 

[MichaelStockin]

Back when oldhammer was current hammer I would convert and all sorts, if it was good enough to be in 'Eavy Metal it was good enough for me.
I still do the odd conversion for my WFB 3rd edition games, also quite a few of my Mordheim oldhammer sculpts had to be converted for the game.

All my Mordheim models had the slotta tab removed as I made my own bases and they needed to be drilled and pinned.

I have 2 ways of doing my oldhammer.
My Stirland forces are all old sculpts and no model is repeated in the force.

All others are whatever sort of looks ok, so the undead are a mix of modern plastics, old citadel, 3d prints and others.


I can get my 'purist' feels from the Stirland stuff and make cheaper and quicker progress with everything else.

 

[Geroak II]

Interesting, I hadn't even though about converting some and being purist about others but rather this as either-or -situation.

Mordheim definitely takes a lot of converting if you're going full-on WYSIWYG; it was real pain trying to find unarmoured dwarfs for my warband.
Each miniature seemed to have at least a helmet if not armour as well. The day GW stopped selling individual bitz was when they lost me as a customer: "Want an empire state troop shield sprue? Sure, we can do that. Want Archaon's right hand with sword? You got it."
Those were the days to be into converting.

 

[Fimm McCool]

Do it.
Even if it's a 'rare' model it's absolutely unique once you have converted it. They're toys, to be be played with and done whatever gives you delight with.

 

[Geroak II]

Couldn't agree more with you, Fimm. That's exactly how I see it.

 

[Eric]

I was going to say It's fine to fix broken minis and/or to add not-original bits, but then realised I'm not sure I really feel like that. Would I wince if someone was cutting up copies of 40K Chapter Approved and using them as beer mats, yes. Does a cool conversion bother me, well not really. I think probably because as Geroak said back in the day you could order whatever so the conversion mentality was a core part of the hobby and whilst nostalgia and the novelty of items has maybe made me feel more precious about bits I don't think that mentality was wrong then or now. The core is still a hobby.

Maybe that's because I'm not a hard-core collector, I've never tried to complete a set of something Citadel have produced. My collection is simply the things I like, so do I have every classic Nurgling? Doubt it, doesn't bother me. Do I leave miniatures in blister packs - well yes until I want to paint them. That seems like a reasonably sensible approach then if I change my mind about them they are probably worth a bit more in the blister and someone gets the fun of "box fresh" if they crack them open! I suppose perhaps I maybe try to work my way through my open and prepped stuff first for that pragmatic reason. Although I can see why you might want to keep "archive" copies of things, but I guess you might hope GW have some of that (they certainly have some stuff).

One of the things I occasionally think is quite nice is that all my metal models (at least) can be so trivially stripped of my (ahem) stunning paint jobs and go onto new lives for decades yet so I do think these are toys to be played with (not that I do enough of that these days, but...) and enjoyed. I guess "reuse" can become a bit harder with heavy conversions, but equally so for repairs. I've had my fair share of ebay lots where there has been a surprising amount of greenstuff under the paint!

So I suppose it depends if you are coming at it from the hobby or collecting side maybe? From the hobby side you build up a collection by accident. From the collection side the collection is the core aim and maybe you want that pristine?

 

[ManicMan]

tricky... I don't feel I'm good enough to really do a decent conversion job on say, a really pricey figure or someone I really can't get another one of.. Like a Prototype or something.. IF it's already broken, then repairing work, even if not quite to original like quality is fine. If I have more then one of the model, then Really doesn't bother me. I currently got a couple of mostly complete Vermin Lords (original) I'm trying to figure out some conversion for. Can't find any prototype designs or art so I'm kinda running in circles of thinking what to do with them as the pose is kinda.. one you are stuck with. I'm not completely one for keeping things factory fresh..

They have a purpose in the world and that isn't to sit in a sealed box until sold for over the top price as an 'investment'.. that's what almost (and for a while, pretty much did) kill the US comic book business (and one reason I don't bother with things like Magic: The Gathering.. I've seen people moan when they reissue old cards because it decrease value and this are meant to be 'big time fans' ¬_¬ Nothing wrong with protecting your cards with sleeves but really? people go too far at times (though I think there are some limits some things I think are kinda way too good to have me try screwing around with)

 

[Geroak II]

That was a nice, well thought answer, EricF. No sarcasm, I really mean it (I feel like a dork saying this, but sometimes people really take things the wrong way on internets).

In the end this question might actually be more about "How do you hobby oldhammer" or "How much do you value gaming pieces in this hobby".
Thinking of just collectors alone, there are many types of people; those who want to collect the original "set" to paint (and possibly to play), those who would never play with their painted models, those just wanting to collect them all in their pristine, unpainted glory and those who want nothing but unopened blisters and boxes for display, never to be opened.
And even though I whole-heartedly agree with what Fimm said, I, naturally, think people should do as they see fit with their miniatures.

All in all, I feel like it's an interesting mix of how one approaches/"does" the hobby and what part nostalgia plays in all this.
Does one see these old figures as pieces of art that should not be modified or as something to add or build their own vision upon.

Seeing Manicman's reply, I feel like I should have added one or two more possible answers to the poll; one being "fixing as close to the original as possible" and another one something between options 3 and 4 as it might be too drastic a change between them.

Would I wince if someone was cutting up copies of 40K Chapter Approved and using them as beer mats, yes.

I would too, and I dont' really care about 40k at all.

 

[symphonicpoet]

I'm very much in the "they're toys, play with them" camp. They're not sacred. None of them are truly unique, even the rare ones. And has been previously said, when I got started at this they were new and conversion was the done thing. I love variety and I rather dislike having identical miniatures in the same scene, so I convert. I completely get it that maybe folks don't want to convert a thing they payed large piles of hard earned money for, but most of my oldest miniatures were bought with spare cash thirty odd years ago now. Almost forty in some cases. (The year 2000 seemed like a faraway dream for much of my life and now its the mid 2020s? How did this insanity occur? And why am I require to specify which 20s?)

So yeah, practicality makes sense. No need to crack open a blister until you're ready to paint it. Don't convert a thing you love and want to cherish as is. But convert anything you want to and paint everything if you can. Enjoy your toys however best suits you.

 

[twisted moon]

creativity is the name of the game, so convert away.

 

[ManicMan]

been having a thought for a while and this is only slightly related but one good thing with some of the GW re-issues is it can slightly reduce the problem. I picked up the re-issue of the Orc Way Wyvern cause I Like the model and while I think my dad had one (pretty sure but it's in the loft someplace) I wanted one to paint up and stuff, so good price for the re-issue, no problem.. But looking I'm thinking of something a bit more unique.. It's probebly not gonna have alot of changes, mostly just the mount I think but I think the amount of hacking and stuff I need to do on a couple of parts I would be far less likely to do on a 'old valuable figure' then a recent re-issue.

 

[Golgfag1]

I look at broken figures as an opportunity to add something extra, easiest thing broken weapons.

Paul / Golgfag1

 

[jon_1066]

I personally don't convert old metal models - mostly because they are such a pain to do. Plastic is so much easier for that. I converted a couple in the distant past but mostly because things like Chaos Marauders and Warriors didn't have a standard bearer at the time.

I think it is your model do as you like with it. If you want to melt down a £1000 Nuln Spearman to cast up some Prince August then fill your boots. I suppose at that extreme though it becomes conspicuous consumption and that does rankle. That figure could make someone else happy and you can give that money to charity if you really want to burn some cash. So where is the cut off line? Does the conversion have to be good? Destroying something valuable for no purpose is not good. A conversion though has purpose to its creator and that is probably good enough for me.

 

[Eric]

only slightly related but one good thing with some of the GW re-issues is it can slightly reduce the problem.

I was thinking about this a bit myself and finding that whilst I think I still broadly agree with my first post that does start to waver a bit more with things like kits and so forth. So as mentioned on my WIP thread I was thinking about converting a Mighty Fortress to best match the one photographed in the Warhammer Siege book, but I'm not sure I'd feel totally happy laying into a perfect mint Mighty Fortress - part of me feels maybe sometimes things should be preserved as artefacts (now the one in question to go under the knife is no where near mint so...). Wondering if perhaps the same goes for some blisters and other boxed sets. Metal that is just sat there on the desk I feel less fussed by, but packaged stuff seems to tug at my nostalgia strings more and stirs up my inner museum curator! So I think I probably have to qualify my prior post a bit more around scarcity of the model and how close to "as sold" state it might be in especially if sealed or on sprues. I think I need to soul search a bit more to figure out what I really think.

So where is the cut off line? Does the conversion have to be good? Destroying something valuable for no purpose is not good

A difficult one. Like anything no way it could every be policed so I think you have to say if you're going to "allow" (in the spirt of the thread) conversions of old models then anything goes, good or bad. Just reserve the right to suck in past clenched teeth when you see the worst.

Actually if anyone wants to buy my Nuln Spearman conversions I've got 20 I converted just the other day into AD&D slimes, really nice, look just like pools of slime now, but they started as 100% guaranteed Nuln Spearmen - honest Lets say £500 each? Anyone ....

 

[ManicMan]

etsy ..... not only will you get those prices, but you can steal stuff from others and claim you make it yourself (hell, well over half the 3D print stl files on etsy are stolen from either other sellers or ones which are given for free and resold there ¬_¬

I'm still having a debate as to HOW much of this re-issue I convert.. do I just go with a magnet rider swap, or all full out.. tricky..

 

[inchmurrin]

I am very much in the do what you wish with your toy soldiers, in my case I convert broken modern stuff but don't touch older pieces to the extent that i am no selling off classic pieces like Slambo as I'll never get around to them and in his case i am as happy converting a monopose chaos warrior.

 

[ManicMan]

the Classic Chaos Warrior Slambo?! looking to get as much as possible for him I take it?

 

[Geroak II]

Apologies if my previous posts might have seemed erratic, I had enjoyed a few bewerages when making this thread and posting on it.

Anyways, it's nice to see this has evoked further discussion, this is what I had hoped for.
I might have come off as some crazy converter from whom no miniature is safe, but in general I only make bigger modifications when I get an idea I really like or when I have to convert in order to fix something. Still, my previous opinion stands and I think any miniature is fair game for converting should inspiration strike.
Might add that I, too, have some unopened blisters and can't really say why I haven't opened them.
One Talisman blister I couldn't resist opening and let me tell you, air that had been trapped there for some 20 odd years smelled like root cellar, I kid you not.

So where is the cut off line? Does the conversion have to be good? Destroying something valuable for no purpose is not good

A difficult one. Like anything no way it could every be policed so I think you have to say if you're going to "allow" (in the spirt of the thread) conversions of old models then anything goes, good or bad. Just reserve the right to suck in past clenched teeth when you see the worst.

I didn't want to go with just "yes" or "no" as answers, though later on I realized there should have been more options to choose from. But perhaps this poll still gives a rough overview how forum members feel about the topic. I also purposefully left the question open as to whether we're talking about you doing the converting or someone else and see if this would come up in discussion, as I presumed some might be ok with others converting but wouldn't do that to their own minis.

Whether it's a "good conversion" I think only whoever did it can answer to that. You might not like it, I might not like it, but does that really matter if converter themself is happy with it? Only reason I think I would condemn a conversion is if it was done in bad taste (and though people have differing opinions about what is distasteful, I'd like to think there are things that are simply seen as unacceptable and wouldn't cause much debate).

As I'm writing I did remember this one diorama (possibly golden demon entry, maybe even in top three, from years ago) that had some imperial guard soldiers, men, and what could only be assumed to be a POW, an eldar woman. It was extremely clear what the situation was and what was about to go down, though she had been converted holding a knife hidden behind her back and it was ultimately left for viewer to decide what the outcome would be. I'm not sure I really liked that diorama and conversions in it, no matter how well it might have been painted and executed.

 

[MichaelStockin]

I remember that, I was not keen on it.

 

[inchmurrin]

the Classic Chaos Warrior Slambo?! looking to get as much as possible for him I take it?

Actually I got some ideas on the Facebook Oldhammmer Trading company and sold him for £30 which seemed to be about the middle of the range on there, strangely the pre slottta Harry Hammer sells for only a little less.