Half Orc? Half Goblinoid?

ManicMan

ManicMan

Lord
In early Warhammer, Half Orcs are not. Half orcs is said to be the name for half-breeds where one parent is a Human, and the other is a Orc, Goblin or Hobgoblin. Half Orc appear to be one of these races they took from DnD and such like but as thing evolved, they just dropped them.. maybe cause as the Goblinoids grew, it became... trickier for the whole half breeding thing.. (I mean, technically for it to be a different species, they CAN'T cross-breed... its.. complex ^_^;

Said to be hated by both Human and Goblinoid societies, they are often forced into mercenary work.

That's all I know about them. what really are they? well.. like where abouts do they live, do they inherit a skin ton or mix more, etc.. do they even have a culture?
 
Silas Meel, the half Orc spy, is in the first scenario in Blood Bath at Orcs Drift, WHFB 2ed (plus Gary Chalk illustration of him in jail)... That's all I know. Got some pre slotta early citadel half-orcs from early 80s, also there were the Citadel Saruman half orcs ME45 . Only other one I can think of in 'lore' is Tolkien's 'squint eyed southerner' in Bree, in the LOTR book description...
 
ManicMan said:
.... they are often forced into mercenary work.

That's all I know about them. what really are they? well.. like where abouts do they live, do they inherit a skin ton or mix more, etc.. do they even have a culture?
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Forgot about Mudak's (or Mudat Brockenbone) half orc-
RR9 Regiment of Renown Orc mercs! I think a lot of descriptive stuff was pulled from dnd in turn pulled from Tolkien. The sallow skinned southerner spy in Bree was a Dunlander 'brigand' with Orc ancestry and goblinoid features, working for Saruman and the Nazgul. Saruman was supposed to have (abominally) crossed orcs and men.
 

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yeah. while I don't agree with the theory of 'dropping Fimir cause of their backstory'
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but I do think when you start to get some of warhammer races defined.. like look at Kev Adams Goblins.. you think them making with human women isn't a bit... off? then the later more bulky orcs with human women? or how about a human male with a female goblin or orc? yeah.. things just get... interesting and I think these half-breeds kinda have the built in and unremovable or 'looked past' where ones like Amazons and Fimir is easy to just look past or ignore.
 
ManicMan said:
yeah. while I don't agree with the theory of 'dropping Fimir cause of their backstory'
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but I do think when you start to get some of warhammer races defined.. like look at Kev Adams Goblins.. you think them making with human women isn't a bit... off? then the later more bulky orcs with human women? or how about a human male with a female goblin or orc? yeah.. things just get... interesting and I think these half-breeds kinda have the built in and unremovable or 'looked past' where ones like Amazons and Fimir is easy to just look past or ignore.
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Not looking at the models literally, who knows? Several generations after the event /inter race breeding and looking more human humanoid than goblioid? Tolkien never asked the question but left it hanging, hinted at orcish blood and Saruman's (a Maiar, angelic spirit turned bad) magicks. Orcs are degenerate elves if the silmarillion is believed? I believe the oldhammer 'back story read as that anything with hint of 'greenskin blood' was at one time forcefully ousted/expelled from Nuln. They turn to banditry/rustling. And Mudak goes back, raids/sacks city and has the remains/armour of the elector count's champion on his Standard...He also gets murdered by Grom the paunch for changing sides once too many times... :)
 
problem is... In Tolkien.. didn't they kinda degrade over the years from a more human looking race to the.. uhem... 'inspired' later versions from war of the rings period? in which case, its a bit all over the place.. my Tolkien isn't very good cause.. reasons ^_^
 
Several ages passed in Tolkiens stories. Enough for the 'species' to evolve through magic, etc. All I remember is that elven captives were tortured and abominally disfigured, magically I guess, to create orcs as a mockery to the valar, the gods of middle earth. Don't think they were 'bred' in the first instance, but they were 'created' in the silmarrillion tales by morgoth/melkor. Tolkien later confused things (book of Lost tales) by suggesting other deadends like them being corrupted mixes of men (the uruk-hai) and also at one point a mixture of elves, etc as well as morgoth couldn't create 'life' in his magic but only corruption of it. The warhammer old world obviously took from this originally. Later greenskins (modern/40K) back story of cave mushroom bred(!) is closer aligned with Tolkiens 'mythic' saying also they (orcs) were created from subterranean slime/rock. That's also in the Lost Tales. Confused yet? As am I... :D
 
While doubtless inspired by Tolkien and then pinched for AD&D, it might be more useful to look at Half-Orc Warhammer history for answers to your questions.

Per WFB2's Battle Bestiary:
... Although renegade bands of Half-Orcs do act together as mercenaries or raiders, it is more usual to find them integrated within goblinoid society.
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Physique. These creatures look like a cross between humans and goblinoids, just as you would expect. Some have characteristically Orcish heads, whilst others resemble humans more closely, but maybe have slightly ape-like arms or crooked legs. Appearance is very variable. Skin and hair colour usually approximate to those of the creature's originators.
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In Ravening Hordes, you could take 0-20 in a single unit of 10 or more as well as picking Half-Orc characters. While less tough than Orcs, they were more intelligent with better initiative and didn't suffer from animosity. Half-Orc characters could act as leaders for units of other goblinoids.

While Aly sculpted some cracking solid and slotta base Half-Orc figures, they didn't seem that popular back in the day. At least not in the circles I moved in.

P.S. The pre-Adams Perry Orcs were often rather lanky though stooped.
 
ignore that rubbish media version ^_^

It's like the problems with not only later Frank Herbert Dune but the crap his son started to do.. like "Oh, that first book is not what REALLY happed. cause it's just a bias reporting of it.. What I say really happened IS what really happened".. First book, great read. second book? maybe.. after that? don't bother ¬_¬
 
ManicMan said:
ignore that rubbish media version ^_^

It's like the problems with not only later Frank Herbert Dune but the crap his son started to do.. like "Oh, that first book is not what REALLY happed. cause it's just a bias reporting of it.. What I say really happened IS what really happened".. First book, great read. second book? maybe.. after that? don't bother ¬_¬
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Have read all the Dune books and concur!
 
One of the reasons I never cared for the "orcs are mold" thing from later RT 40K is that it puts the kaibosh on things like half orcs so completely. Orcs (and elves and dwarves) are just too similar to humans. There's got to be some reason for this. (Is it surprising our dreams and nightmares resemble us, really?) I want my orc/ks to be related to us. To be a shadow version of us, and thus half-able.
 
doesn't really stop it. well.. not if you accept the whole 'different species CAN crossbred thing'. In RT, Eldar are believed to have a common ancestor with humans, and Squads, halflings and Orgyn are humans who have been mutated due to the planets they settled on.

since they have alot of Convergent evolution anyway, it might still be possible to breed with a more... plant based lifeform. and 40K has alot of eugenics in the later RT and onwards period.. so they kinda scrapped all the mutations...
 
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