Does That Seem Right To You? (WFB 3rd)

Michael Stockin

Michael Stockin

Lord
I was chatting on WhatsApp about Elven Attack Chariots and we were saying that it seems odd for forest dwellers to have chariots.
High Elves sure, but a race of people that live in trees?

I then also said I was not 100% sold on Goblinoids using gunpowder.

What else seems out of sorts to you in terms of things that armies could field.
 
Well, Woodies don't always fight home matches plus they have the heathland around the forest to defend. My recollection from my WFBattling days is that's where the cavalry and chariots were used.
 
Wood elves have a celtic vibe to them, so the chariots are playing into the imagery of those light weight horse drawn chariots but with the Tolkien elf designs thrown into the mix. Just cause they live in the woods doesn’t mean they wouldn’t utilise their earlier technologies in battle?
 
Also historically, in Europe at least, there was a lot of chariot use in countries that were hilly, forested or both. Think the Celts and Iliad-era Greece. I think I read somewhere that it was because those cultures didn't have access to horses that were big/sturdy enough to be ridden effectively as any kind of cavalry. But yoke two of them together and they could pull a lightweight chariot. So whether the Wood Elves were stuck with tiny ponies themselves, who can say?
 
Michael Stockin said:
FINE I am persuaded.

Though I will maintain that undead war machines being made of giant bones is daft.

:D
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There is an interesting fine line between keeping a fantasy setting feeling realistic - and I'd argue the older iterations of the Old World (WFRP, etc) are such a setting - but still fantastical, which is presumably an aspect that has drawn us in. Otherwise we'd just all be doing pure historical wargaming. Maybe the reality of those war machines and chariots is they are wooden and carved to look like bones and painted? (although they do explicitly say they are made of bones). It's a bit like the same argument you see Rick talking about in some interviews in designing rules - getting the spirt in there and enough meat to engage without making the rules so complicated people loose interest.

I'll have to have a bit of a think about other things specifically in third.
 
A lore reason... not that I know of.
A REASON, yes, several-
1) Early Citadel still operate in a world where 'historical' gaming was king. Having semi-historicals in the range made sense.
2) The Perrys loved sculpting historicals of various periods and had somewhat free reign so these were 'accommodated' into the Warhammer world.
3) The Warhammer world is based of a load of cultural stereotypes/cliches from the history of the real world. This helps the player immediately understand the kind of places/people there are by drawing on their own assumptions (as well as being easy wins when it comes to world building). Obvious national tropes don't exist at the same point in history so use of them has to span many centuries.
4) Fantasy often plays with these mash-ups of periods. Look at Tolkien- the Rohirrim feel like they belong in an 'earlier' world than Gondor whilst aspects of the Shire are almost Victorian in their fairytale quality. The freedom to interpose technological and cultural levels together in different ways is part of what makes it fantastical and fun.
 
Wood Elves are wood folk but how dense are the woods? They have horses, flying griffins.. I've also always wondered about old Robin Hood nature with Long Bows.. in the woods.. erm... If a dense wood, you aren't gonna be hitting people or animals much. you are more likely to hit a tree. Short bow, maybe. Crossbow very much better for a dense woodland.

So I'm thinking 1) a bit more controlled/coppiced wood land or atleast not thickly dense. and 2) they don't just defend there own lands, but of out so they want something to get past the bare fields to get back to better woodland.
 
I'm kinda used to things where Dragons are perfectly able to walk ^_^ they only expand their wings when they need to..

Probably cause I've played games where moving your dragon though caves and the like is a thing ^_^
 
Forest Dragons are quite lithe & flexible compared to wide & muscular mountain dragons, they slink around tree trunks and roots before taking flight in clearings. 😄
 
ManicMan said:
Wood Elves are wood folk but how dense are the woods? They have horses, flying griffins.. I've also always wondered about old Robin Hood nature with Long Bows.. in the woods.. erm... If a dense wood, you aren't gonna be hitting people or animals much. you are more likely to hit a tree. Short bow, maybe. Crossbow very much better for a dense woodland.

So I'm thinking 1) a bit more controlled/coppiced wood land or atleast not thickly dense. and 2) they don't just defend there own lands, but of out so they want something to get past the bare fields to get back to better woodland.
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I lived in Nottinghamshire in the early-mid 80s and the legend of Robin Hood had particular cultural resonance in the area (helped by the then current Robin of Sherwood TV series). I am almost certain the look of the Wood Elves was very heavily influenced by that tv series, especially as the character and his mentor Herne the Hunter have strong pre Christian/'Celtic' vibes. The longbow was emblematic of the character and and the show.

Conversely (I haven't looked but I wonder if anyone has done a TV Trope about it) crossbows are often depicted as the weapons of evil or the oppressor. The Normans used crossbows in the tv series, the dastardly Saxons in that crap 2004 King Arthur film are armed with them. Even dark elves in Warhammer use them, including the trademark repeating variety. I think they are often treated as needing little skill or physical strength to use in contrast to the bow.

Incidentally if you are British you are encouraged to see the longbow (with some justification) as the weapon that won battles for the Welsh against the Anglo Normans and famously against the French (who used crossbowmen) at Crecy and Agincourt amongst others. Its a cultural icon.

Finally actual medieval forest was often quite sparse for the reason that forest land was intended for hunting game on horseback and the nobility tend to get the hump if they're spending all afternoon getting knocked out of their saddles by overhanging branches or poked in the eye by foliage. Perhaps Wood Elves practice a form of arboriculture to keep their endz nice and clear for hunting.

I was and am a WFB 3rd edition Wood Elf army owner and unapologetic fan boy btw.
 
Yup, but dwarfs like to use crossbows, so not just bad guys. Guess they prefer the mechanical side of them (before straight up black powder weapons were introduced for them)?
 
It's like an old Japanese thing where the bad guys use guns, where the good guys use swords. Not just Japanese though as guns were seen as a cowards weapon for being someone in hiding over a distance. while there is kinda not a huge difference between a Long Bow and a Crossbow in that kinda way of distance, it appears to have been romanticised way more then a crossbow's "gun like" nature.

I remember a story from India but I can't remember all the details but it's where one group of people tell the story about these evil invaders, which is where the term 'Devil' is meant to come from, where that group have the same story but it's reversed, and of course, no one knows what the truth is.. Like the Story of the English Dragon vs the Welsh Dragon. Can't remember which one was meant to be the good guy in that...
 
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