NSFW Blanche and the Femme Corporis Politique

[Zhu Bajie]

Oh I dunno AranaszarSzuur, Erny is very worth interacting with. We don't always agree but he's coming from a good place and has both a knack for expressing his opinions clearly and has excellent critical thinking skills. He's also a bit good at painting orcs.

My Occams razor cleanly cuts the majority of horny teenage boys obsessions into the huge doses of testosterone bin rather than the social conditioning bin. Experiments have been done here, give a woman half the normal resting testosterone dose of a teenage boy and get yourself a nymphomaniac (a nymphomaniac with heart problems). An artist asked to paint a cover to appeal to young men for a book about a barbarian that gets the girl won't have to think long and hard about how they are going to go about it. We know what the boys like.

Have any actual, peer-reviewed scientific analysis been done on what 'boys like' or are we assuming it from our accultued position my Occams razor cuts away both the free market economy and imaginary teenage boys, and leaves us with the stuff that we think about and talk about whilst looking at the art. Does the image of a female clinging to the leg of a bare chested barbarian reinforce or reflect gender stereotypes? Yes. I think we both agree it does. Does the image of a man in high heels crushing a broken statue of a woman reinforce gender stereotypes? Possibly. Or possibly it's an ironic comment on a well worn heroic-fantasy trope.

But in terms of using a cultural symbol-system - I'm ignorant of people using MTBI in art criticism - do you have any references to this kind of practice?

Apparently Jungian literary criticism is actually a thing. I don't know if anyone actually uses MBTI for criticism. Would be quite pointless as MBTI tends to mistype a lot of people.
Personally, I use another typing system that roughly correlate with MBTI but uses physiological cues for reliable typing without requiring very high self-knowledge and high knowledge of the system from a typed person. I just use MBTI names for general understanding.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the Jungian school, he wrote on the Maiden-Mother-Crone archetype trinity, and I get the Animus / Maiden thing. Deep breath. Male gaze - the female as male psychological function, not as a depiction of an independent being in their own right. An artist has to be self aware enough not to just project their subconscious onto paper.

From my understanding MBTI was developed from Jung (not by him) and I think he would have resisted a non-dynamic and systematic way of relating to people. However, I could see its use as a way of looking at representation, at its most crude and basic one could just identify Extrovert and Introvert attitudes and poses, and map their frequency in certain genres of imagery (for example).

Oh and if you dig Jung and fantasy, read Wizard of Earthsea by Usula Le Guin. It's really good anyway.

I think the high heeled boots here symbolise sexual dominance and violent sadism.

That's the main paradox - in order to become a symbol of 'sexual dominance' the female is compelled to submit herself to the physical torture of fetish clothing - boots that bend and distort the foot, corsetry that makes it difficult to breathe, and ultimately subsume her own identity to the male fantasy stereotype of the dominatrix.

tfw no non-mangled 3D dominatrix waifu available.
tfw no non-mangled 3D females available at all.

Just to come back to this one, and the Assessmans point which de Simone de Beauvoir was originally making - that the role can be fulfilling even though it is a 'denial of freedom' and so makes it more seductive. De Beauvoir also discuss positions of The Serious Man and the sub-man, the sub-man admits to no concept of freedom, and the Serious Man willingly submits their with to a 'greater cause' . Both deny their existentialist freedom, much like a Space Marine - the internalisation of the totalitarian state of the Empire reflected in his externality, the immobile dustbin armoured legs and masked, hidden face erasing his individual identity, and the adoption of the symbols of archetypal warrior. The gender disparity isn't in the objectification per-se but the rather sexualised nature of the female objectification.

And just to think, I was all geared up for examining Blanches use of the beauty spot in many of his depictions of women, bringing in William Hogarth's the Harlots Progress, prostitution and facial semaphore ...

http://earlymodernmedicine.com/beauty-s ... rench-pox/

I especially like this 'code' for the position of the beauty spot:

the ‘assassin’ (forehead);
the ‘gallant’ (cheek)
the ‘coquette’ (lips)

impishness (corner of the mouth);
flirt (the cheek);
in love (beside the eye);
chin indicated (roguishness)
nose (cheekiness)
lip w (coquettish),
forehead (proud).

Which might be amusing for the followers of Blanchitsu anyway...

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Ancient Spirits of Evil, transform this decaying thread...

A Rhetorical Blanchian Rorschach Test:

What do you see? A post-apocalyptic car-warrior surveying the landscape in fetish boots and her underwear because it's hot out and those actually are sensible rock climbing and driving shoes, or a pinup-posed post-apocalyptic street-walking prostitute about to be picked up by a curb crawler, with undertones of a Flintlock wielding Lovely Joan (the scene replete with a 'milk white steed') ?

 

[Erny]

I don't know I think I see a glimpse into Blanches mind, taken with his other works we have Visual interests:

The Late Baroque
Punk
Dystopia
Femininity
Fulfilling the brief.

Other interests:

Unknown.

I don't know if the visual interest extends any further than that, is Blanche worried about gender roles or the exploitation of the female gender or the fluidity of identity? I'm not sure, have no proof one way or another. I do know I think it looks cool enough without the politics.

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Any proof you need is right there in the art! Just look at it - it is the object of evidence itself. We're not looking into Blanches mind which is impossible, nor areas of interest he describes in other secondary texts - that line of enquiry entirely depends on authorial fallacy. It is the viewer that creates meanings, I simply shared a reading of the work, what's yours?

"Cool", for example is a contrived notion of acceptance based purely on conforming to ones own socially constructed value system. It's not a universal value in its own right. Is this cool? So what do you mean by cool, what makes it cool to you? I mean, I think the visually awkward, theatrically staged composition underwriting the inherent false-ness of the fantasy is cool. I think the visually symbolic use of colour, integration of the womans orange, black and red colours into the background landscape naturalising her as a mindlessly inevitable part of the post apocalyptic environment contrasting against the purer, whiter, car and road-sign, which stand out as signifiers of resistance against the entropy is also cool.

There are endless coded and obvious signifiers of fetishisation and sexualisation, including explicit, repeated fetishistic motifs within the body of work, it seems more than a little disingenuous to diminish these aspects or reduce them away as "politics". If we agree 'femininity' as one of the areas of interest the work speaks to, how does the visual image construct that femininity? What kinds, modes and behaviours of femininity are proposed, and which are denied? Why must the figure on the edge of a barren post-apocalyptic landscape appear codified as a feminised, sexualised cliché? My "Lovely Joan" reading supplies some thinking on that, and of course I'm interested in other readings. How are the notions you bring of Baroque, Punk, Dystopia and Femininity constructed by the image, can they go beyond just categorising and describing what is there to see to bring context and meaning to the work?

 

[Stormbringer]

What do you see? A post-apocalyptic car-warrior surveying the landscape in fetish boots and her underwear because it's hot out and those actually are sensible rock climbing and driving shoes

At first glance, I see a post-apocalytpic car-warrior surveying the landscape in fetish boots and her underwear because she thinks they make her look sexy and "badass" and "counter-cultural", not because they're sensible footwear.

However, her pose is somewhat less "I'm surveying the landscape" and more "Hello, boys!", it seems.

 

[AranaszarSzuur]

What do you see? A post-apocalyptic car-warrior surveying the landscape in fetish boots and her underwear because it's hot out and those actually are sensible rock climbing and driving shoes

At first glance, I see a post-apocalytpic car-warrior surveying the landscape in fetish boots and her underwear because she thinks they make her look sexy and "badass" and "counter-cultural", not because they're sensible footwear.

Err... warrior-style counter-cultures are usually including military gear in their clothes to look "badass" and "counter-cultural". Even when fetish stuff is included.
Much more realistic would be some kind of a combination of fetish and military like combat boots, short shorts, fishnet stockings, tank top, ammo belts, choker and face paint or something like that.

 

[Scalene]

Can you even be counter-culture after the apocalypse when there's no establishment left? Adds a whole new meaning to Marlon Brando's line - "What are you rebelling against?" "Whaddya got (left)?"

 

[Niibl]

As long as there are still memories (even distorted ones) of the culture that created the apocalypse you can be counter culture. It would be difficult to separate from culture mimicking if the level of distortion is high enough though.

 

[Stormbringer]

Good question. I didn't really mean anyone to read that too literally, my general point being that she's a warrior who is dressing that way because she wants to, not because she's a prostitute or because it is practical.

 

[Count Von Bruno]

Sexy little panties!

 

[AranaszarSzuur]

Good question. I didn't really mean anyone to read that too literally, my general point being that she's a warrior who is dressing that way because she wants to, not because she's a prostitute or because it is practical.

Fictional characters have no agency. Also, mobility is critical for warriors, so they won't wear stiletto heels.

 

[Stormbringer]

Fictional characters have no agency.

Sigh.

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Good question. I didn't really mean anyone to read that too literally, my general point being that she's a warrior who is dressing that way because she wants to, not because she's a prostitute or because it is practical.

"The whole world is destroyed, but I have kept my internalised patriarchy intact!" Levels of masochism reach new grounds as rock-climbing in stilettos becomes the new normal.

In training for the apocalypse.

Retaining the complete insanity that is modern decadent 'culture' as a totem of the now lost civilisation. I can see that, a kind of nostalgia for the hierarchies and systems of oppression that have long gone.

Much more realistic would be some kind of a combination of fetish and military like combat boots, short shorts, fishnet stockings, tank top, ammo belts, choker and face paint or something like that.

Realism is an odd thing, but yeah, it's possible to do post-apoclyptic punk sehxy girlz without resorting to heels and basque (again). AranaszarSzuur, I've seen your comments on other responses, but what do you think of the original image?

 

[AranaszarSzuur]

In training for the apocalypse.

Ugh, absolutely repulsive.

AranaszarSzuur, I've seen your comments on other responses, but what do you think of the original image?

*shrugs* I dunno, professor Zhu. Blanche being a weirdo pervert again, I guess XD .

 

[Erny]

In training for the apocalypse.

Ugh, absolutely repulsive.

AranaszarSzuur, I've seen your comments on other responses, but what do you think of the original image?

*shrugs* I dunno, professor Zhu. Blanche being a weirdo pervert again, I guess XD .

Repulsive? I think she's hot. Love the shoes, they look cool. Ah but now I must define cool and hot and why I think these things due to social conditioning. Or not. Even if it is conditioning I'm happy to be conditioned if the result is so aesthetically pleasing. Ah but why is it pleasing? I understand how and why one would go about understanding why water turns to ice at certain temperatures and why it expands when most materials shrink. Objective measurement and experimentation gives us a very clear answer. There are as many theories on why high heeled shoes are so nice/horrid as there are theorists and nobody has produced any concrete evidence. Some things are worth liking and not thinking too much about.

If Blanche counts as a pervert in your world I wonder what names you reserve for people with an unhealthy interest in animals?

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Some things are worth liking and not thinking too much about.

Politics.

+1 like!

 

[AranaszarSzuur]

In training for the apocalypse.

Ugh, absolutely repulsive.

AranaszarSzuur, I've seen your comments on other responses, but what do you think of the original image?

*shrugs* I dunno, professor Zhu. Blanche being a weirdo pervert again, I guess XD .

Repulsive? I think she's hot. Love the shoes, they look cool. Ah but now I must define cool and hot and why I think these things due to social conditioning. Or not. Even if it is conditioning I'm happy to be conditioned if the result is so aesthetically pleasing. Ah but why is it pleasing? I understand how and why one would go about understanding why water turns to ice at certain temperatures and why it expands when most materials shrink. Objective measurement and experimentation gives us a very clear answer. There are as many theories on why high heeled shoes are so nice/horrid as there are theorists and nobody has produced any concrete evidence. Some things are worth liking and not thinking too much about.

You're wrong. High heels are objectively degenerate.
1
2

Also, her phenotype is severely compromised.

Some things are worth liking and not thinking too much about.

Your thoughtlessness comes at cost of someone's health and comfort.

If Blanche counts as a pervert in your world I wonder what names you reserve for people with an unhealthy interest in animals?

Zoophiles. Also, I'd argue that if a person can't make art for a game about cars shooting each others or other people shooting/stabbing each other without including their unhealthy fetishes, that person is dominated by their fetishes enough to label them a pervert.

 

[Erny]

I'd never enjoy someone being made to do something painful or detrimental to their health. If someone chooses to do something then I have no problem appreciating beauty. Otherwise I couldn't enjoy the remarkable beauty of a ballet, a boxing match, a well fought game of rugby, the rowing of the Atlantic. Indeed before I got fat and middle aged I used to wear very tight jeans, my wife likes them, not good for my health and certainly bad for my sperm count. OK I lied I still wear them but I possibly am forcing suffering on others now.

High heels worn in moderation are far from a major risk to health and many people choose to wear them because it brings happiness to themselves and indeed others. Sharing a drink with friends is a common pastime that is to me one of the joys of life. That said alcohol is a very dangerous substance. I don't think drinking is repulsive however.

Sex is part of life and it sells so a picture for a game of a dystopian but sexy future is hardly perverted. Perhaps the lawlessness of the dystopian future means that women have to pander to the male gaze. The brutes are going to force their way onto any meek flower the only two options are to attract the best protector or dom up, sex is power after all. Who knows it's just a picture and there is room for a high heeled post apocalypses dominatrix just as much as the equally hot Lori Petty as Tank girl. Man the 90's were cool.

And I'm not sure phenotype means what you think it means. Actually I'm not sure what you think it means, it isn't something that can be compromised.

 

[Zhu Bajie]

. Perhaps the lawlessness of the dystopian future means that women have to pander to the male gaze. The brutes are going to force their way onto any meek flower the only two options are to attract the best protector or dom up, sex is power after all. Who knows it's just a picture

So, it's a picture of a simple misogynistic power fantasy. That's a fair enough reading.

I'm not sure Dark Future (the game) has all that much actual sex in it. It's not F.A.T.A.L. so perhaps false advertising.

And I'm not sure phenotype means what you think it means. Actually I'm not sure what you think it means, it isn't something that can be compromised.

I understood 'compromised phenotype' as a description of something that has maladapted to its environment. For example, something that has a mutation that threatens the life of the individual organism, or the continuation of its species or collective morphology. Can also be used to describe genetically disposed behavioural maladaptations - obesity or emaciation through eating disorders for example, or wearing bloody stupid shoes that reduce chances of survival in the environment, because status-signalling is erroneously considered more important than survival.

Certainly an interesting thinky thing for looking at stuff like:

If someone chooses to do something then I have no problem appreciating beauty.

The image is entirely John Blanches choice, the figure in the painting has no agency whatsoever. It's entirely constructed, and as we assume it isn't a self-portrait, it's an 'other'. The model in the photo is being paid to do a job, she's not actually climbing rocks in shoes because she just woke up one day and felt like it, but because being photographed is how she makes a living. Of course, it might be her choice to earn a living that way, but it's highly unlikely the model chose to situate herself within that specific visual metaphor. She's certainly complicit in making the image, but it's heavily compromised as an exercise in free will.

 

[AranaszarSzuur]

Anyway, I got into discussion about treacher Primarchs with some feminist art major on Tumblr:
Begins here

Ends here where they block me and confuse me with the Torture-Device dude from DeviantArt XD .

Art Major brags about being an Art Major, doesn't know Bosch and Durer.

She used a gif of an ENTP actress as an expression of her frustration. Is it because she's an Introverted Thinking user?