Basing - where am I going wrong?

Citadel Collector

Citadel Collector

Baron
I've currently started basing some figures but I've run into a problem so I'm looking for a solution. I painted a layer of PVA onto a base then dipped it in very fine sand. Left it for a few minutes then shook off the excess. Left it for 24 hours before undercoating. As I'm painting the figures I notice that the base sand is very prone to lift off the base and could easily come off.

So, why is it not sticking to the base properly? Am I using too fine a grade of sand? It's aquarium sand, very small grain size.
 
If I do the sand first and then paint the mini ... it comes off in chunks.
I finish painting the mini first. Then do the PVA sand thing. Then as soon as it is dry paint the sand. It seems to seal it and fix it too the base. (as I paint the base edges at the same time with the base colour.
The only downside is you need to be a bit careful with the PVA not to get glue and sand all over your finished mini.
 
So undercoated sand is likely to raise off the base, but once the sand is painted it will no longer raise off?

I'm sure painting the mini before or after the sand wouldn't affect how the sand behaved...?
 
Here are some options:

1. PVA sand to the base before undercoating with spray. This seals the sand on, some will still fall off when painting but less.
2. Use super glue instead of PVA. It's a little trickier, but has a much stronger hold.
3. After applying the sand and before painting the mini, paint the base earth colour on the sand to seal it. (Works like option 1. )
4. Do all basing after painting.

I tend to use option 1 or 4 depending on how I'm basing the model.
 
I think what Harry is getting at is that doing the sand first and then handling the mini a lot while painting it will make the sand begin to peel off. Giving the base a layer of paint all over will create a seal that stops the sand catching at the edges when the base is handled.

I use a brown ink wash myself once the sand is dry and the drybrush it with a ligher colour.

The only other thing I can think of is how long you're leaving it in the sand - mine get a quick dip and a shake to get rid of the excess. Could sitting in the sand for several minutes be drying out the pva to quick?
 
I meant what he said.

My sand never gets undercoated with spray paint. PVA/sand/acrylic.

I am sure I could do my bases first this way and then paint the mini and it would work. (The sand would not come off) It is the plasticity of the acrylic that seals the sand.
But I would need to touch up the base edges after.
 
Actually I use PVA I tend to leave it in the sand for a lot longer, like 24hrs. Don't know why this shold make a difference but it seems to. Otherwise a someone said, try using superglue.
 
My technique for basing is to completely paint and spray varnish the model first. Once the varnish is dried, use PVA to apply the sand and leave for a few hours to dry. You can brush off any sand that is stuck to the model without damaging it due to the coat of varnish.

Once PVA has dried, paint the sand with regular acrylic paints, standard base colour, wash and drybrush. Then paint the edges of the base and give it all a final coat of spray on varnish.

Job done, never had a problem with peeling sand
 
I had this problem when i first started basing, so after the first layer of pva dried with the sand on it i just used an old drybrush to paint a second layer of pva on top of the sand. Once this had dried it was never going to come off and was easy to undercoat.
 
Once the sand & PVA has dried you can coat the base in very watered down PVA again, this helps to seal it all in place.
 
What I normally do is PVA, sand/rock mix, then let it dry overnight. Brush off the excess sand, paint the sand in "army painter" to help bind the sand to the base & "ink wash" the recesses. Then I drybrush with bleached bone.

I've never had an issue with sand coming off with this technique.

Oh, and I base after I've finished painting the little bugger's.
 
I do the second coat of pva as well. Another thing I've found that helps is to either wash your bases in soapy water or prime them first. Mold release agent residue can keep the pva from sticking well.
 
I'd second washing your bases first. That might be half of your issue here. ;)

Going straight onto a plastic base, I'd score the surface of the base crosshatch with a knife prior to applying anything. That gives your aggregate something more subtantial to hold onto.

Personally, I'm not a fan of PVA & use matte medium instead. It has better adhesion once dry & doesn't peel off in a chunk like PVA can.
Using a wash of CA+ after your first layer has dried will keep any debris from coming loose...ever. :grin:
 
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