How old is "oldhammer"?

Sorry, yes, aesthetic preference is subjective. And mine is . . . a bit idiosyncratic. And I was speaking somewhat hyperbolically, to say the least. If you like contemporary GW that's fine, but . . . it's the aesthetic that makes something "Oldhammer" in my mind more than anything else, not who, why, or even when a thing was sculpted. (And certainly not the rules.) I should know by now to keep my mouth shut about Oldhammer. I generally preach acceptance and tolerance, so I was decidedly naughty, and for this I apologize. Mea culpa. I suppose what I should have said was "That's the most "oldhammer" sculpt I've seen out of GW in forever.

Heck, it's not even strictly true that I dislike all their contemporary stuff. A lot of it, yes, but not all of it. (The Tau and Kroot are kind of cute.) And again, it's a matter of taste.
 
No worries, seemed a bit out of character that post!

Those Dwarf minis are re-releases of Marauder models. Am amazed they remain on standard release! Eye-wateringly overpriced, but unfortunately the models still demand a high price on eBay. Think I will pick up some homage sculpts instead…
 
symphonicpoet said:
Sorry, yes, aesthetic preference is subjective. And mine is . . . a bit idiosyncratic. And I was speaking somewhat hyperbolically, to say the least. If you like contemporary GW that's fine, but . . . it's the aesthetic that makes something "Oldhammer" in my mind more than anything else, not who, why, or even when a thing was sculpted. (And certainly not the rules.) I should know by now to keep my mouth shut about Oldhammer. I generally preach acceptance and tolerance, so I was decidedly naughty, and for this I apologize. Mea culpa. I suppose what I should have said was "That's the most "oldhammer" sculpt I've seen out of GW in forever.

Heck, it's not even strictly true that I dislike all their contemporary stuff. A lot of it, yes, but not all of it. (The Tau and Kroot are kind of cute.) And again, it's a matter of taste.
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I'm totally in agreement with you by the way. Odlhammer is the aesthetic to me too, which is why I can't class anything 6th onwards as Oldhammer and why I think there IS a difference between up to 3rd ed and 4th/5th Warhammer because there's a big shift in aesthetic at that point. I also agree that choice of rules doesn't matter, but play style does. Again, something that shifted dramatically between 3rd and 4th (though you can see the efforts of WD staff during the 90s to say "hey guys, you don't have to play matched tournament-style games all the time!"). In this I think 6th DID push back a little, the core book having siege and skirmish rules and a wealth of scenarios, but by then the competitive Warhammer scene was so established it was largely a losing battle.
 
Brother Meredith said:
No worries, seemed a bit out of character that post!

Those Dwarf minis are re-releases of Marauder models. Am amazed they remain on standard release! Eye-wateringly overpriced, but unfortunately the models still demand a high price on eBay. Think I will pick up some homage sculpts instead…
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Would these be Russian or Chinese 'homage' sculpts?
 
I agree with the aesthetic change, I love the 3rd edition gyrocopters like mine, the 4th edition (with little wings and the pilot with winged helmet) is ok but starting to get a bit cartoony, and then it all starts looking modern in 6th, and outright cartoon-like in the most recent versions, presumably to match the Warhammer Total War games (which I happen to love). I knew the gyrocopter I did for Golden Gobbo would be considered pushing it for Oldhammer aesthetic, but figured 3rd edition 1988 release and the roped together timber construction might squeak in there at the end of the age of Oldhammer, but probably not helped by my late 80's early 90's painting style that was developed with 4th edition 😆.
For me, it feels like the modern plastic minis that I've got my hands on feel less detailed with more large, flat featureless spaces/parts that call for different painting techniques (which I don't have yet), like "slap chop" and the near requirement for an airbrush (which I also don't have). It's likely to do with the difference in materials between casting metal and moulding plastic, combined with ever changing fashions.

I'm happy to sit over here in my cave chuntering and muttering away about the old days as I paint. It's just nice to have found this forum so we can all chunter together! 🤣
 
Brother Meredith said:
No worries, seemed a bit out of character that post!

Those Dwarf minis are re-releases of Marauder models. Am amazed they remain on standard release! Eye-wateringly overpriced, but unfortunately the models still demand a high price on eBay. Think I will pick up some homage sculpts instead…
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I had no idea they were still re-releasing anything classic. Neat! That explains why I like them.

Also, it's not truly out of character, I'm just better behaved here than other places. ;) (Usually.)
 
Gobbit Snotrag said:
Confession: I don't know what "chasing the meta" means. Is it something to do with maximising advantage in competitions?

I consider myself an accidental purist in terms of Oldhammer because I gave up wargaming in '93 when I went to university, rather than as a protest against a creeping change in ethos. I'm interested only in the older rules and minis partly because I didn't grow up with the new ones.
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Same.

For me the Realm of Chaos / Slave to Darkness was the turning point where it all went wrong. Not immediately, but it was never the same again.

There was no evil anymore, just loads of chaos, and new rules about chaos, and that got too prescriptive, weighted and … boring … about chaos.

I liked the freedom of Rogue Trader and the openness to interpret warp spirits as chaos or evil or just aliens.
 
Brother Meredith said:
Very much more a vibe than a set of prescriptive definitions.
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Afraid I have to disagree. I'd come up with a prescriptive definition such as:
"Oldhammer is constituted by using Citadel minis from1980-90 to play games according to rules from the same period."
And if anyone happens to 'draw outside the lines', no Oldhammer police will ever show up to tell them they're doing it wrong. That'd be ridiculous, I think.
Those old rulebooks might often be read best 'by spirit not by letter' - it's overwhelmingly easy to exploit old army lists in all kinds of cheesy ways but I don't think anybody would really want to do that. If I'm wrong here - fine, I hope the oldhammer powergamers have a lot of fun playing poweroldhammer. Most oldhammer guys like the narrative / creative part of wargaming a lot better than the winning part.
Maybe it's the stories connected to these toys that we used to make up which now draw us back. We want to retell them or pick up lose threads and go on telling more stories. Maybe Oldhammer taps into a link between imagination and nostalgia. Contented people have no more need of a vision of the future, so they develop a vision looking into the past and then put their hands to work fulfilling it.
That works for me, I guess.
 
Ti Pouchon said:
Afraid I have to disagree. I'd come up with a prescriptive definition such as:
"Oldhammer is constituted by using Citadel minis from1980-90 to play games according to rules from the same period."
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If you're going super hardline on it as saying 'hammer' has to relate only to warhammer then maybe, but you'd have to say 1983 onwards and even then Games Workshop had photos of other company's models in their publications for a while after so constraining it to Citadel is a push.

Ti Pouchon said:
Most oldhammer guys like the narrative / creative part of wargaming a lot better than the winning part.
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That certainly captures the essence of Oldhammer I enjoy. Paint but don't play? Still Oldhammer. Don't really care if every little rule is by the book as long as you're having an enjoyable time with mates? Oldhammer.
 
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