Lasguns and how to fix them

[Slave to Darkness]

Autoguns go dakka dakka dakka, lasguns twinkle like Christmas lights. Dakka gud, Autoguns iz da best!!

 

[MichaelStockin]

The autogun and the lasgun both have a -1 save mod.

 

[ManicMan]

only in RT (1st). In 2nd, it has a shorter max range and no Save Modifier:
RT:

2ed:

 

[ManicMan]

It's kinda a case of, wanting to fix a lasgun over Autogun in RT/2ed yet you could say they DID fit the lasgun over Autogun in 2ed.

 

[Slave to Darkness]

Are the weapon stats the same in the battle manual or are they more aligned to the 2nd ed stats? Mind you then your not playing trve kvlt 1st ed the way the gods intended but 1.5. Feels like a totally different game once you use the supplemental rules. Both are just as enjoyable to play, I do like using the battle manual, feels like 2nd ed but I still get the joy of all those RoC charts. I do love a good chart to roll on.

 

[Rogue Blooper]

I had a quick look at my copy of RT and was pleased and smuggified to see my reasons why they were used was pretty accurate.
If you feel the army list is broken due to the free upgrade from lasgun to autogun, rather than change what the weapons actually do, why not change the points cost of the upgrade.




Autoguns are better in terms of mechanics, so don't make worse guns better, that can lead to an arms race and before you know it needle guns are as good as plasma cannons.


Make the upgrade 1 point per weapon.

That way the fluff stays the same, the weapons stay the same, the world building and setting stays the same.





My fix solves this by making making lasguns the cheaper option over auto-guns.



A -2 save mod is considerably better than a -1.
If you do that then Bolters are worse than las guns. Yes they have a str of 1 better, but s3 vs t3 compared to s4 vs t3 is a difference of 1 this is not as significant has doubling the armour penetration of a gun.

Las guns with a -2 save mod against typical armour with a save of 5+ make that armour worthless.
Even armour with a save of 4+ is pretty pointless now, you may as well have unarmoured troops and use the points saved in no armour on having more troops.

I think that changing the mechanics like that will have a considerable knock on effect, but making the upgrade from las-gun to the better autogun no longer free will not alter the mechanics at all.


Or look at it this way, if you could upgrade a troopers basic knife to a chainsword for free, would you then make the knife better than the chainsword, or change the points cost to upgrade?

Nah, I disagree. Firstly the points difference in RT meant it didn't make a huge difference to a unit to upgrade - the performance is the important thing. But if you play WYSIWYG you cannot upgrade.

Secondly, strength pre-determines if you make an armour roll - bolters wound humans and eldar, 67% of the time, triggering an armour roll, lasguns only trigger 50% of the time on a hit. so the value of the ST is far higher than the armour save reduction. Same for range - lasguns hit 0% of the time at 32", autoguns hit 50% of the time (if humans are shooting).

Third, there are so few armours with a 5-6 save, hardly any are made useless. flak is useless against any common long gun, and who wears mesh? So refractor fields are cut through, but that's fine.

So a -2 save is less of a big deal than range or ST.

I would add as you said they are more accurate, maybe they should get a +1 to hit at long range instead?

 

[Rogue Blooper]

It's kinda a case of, wanting to fix a lasgun over Autogun in RT/2ed yet you could say they DID fit the lasgun over Autogun in 2ed.

Yeah it sound like it.

 

[Eric]

Are the weapon stats the same in the battle manual

	Short Range	Long Range	To Hit Short	To Hit Long	Strength	Damage	Save Modifier	Special
Auto-gun	0-12	12-32	+1	-	3	1	-1	-
Lasgun	0-12	12-24	+1	-	3	1	-1	-
Boltgun	0-12	12-24	+1	-	4	1	-1	-

 

[Rogue Blooper]

	Short Range	Long Range	To Hit Short	To Hit Long	Strength	Damage	Save Modifier	Special
Auto-gun	0-12	12-32	+1	-	3	1	-1	-
Lasgun	0-12	12-24	+1	-	3	1	-1	-
Boltgun	0-12	12-24	+1	-	4	1	-1	-

So either a +1 to hit at long range based on @MichaelStockin's point that they are supposed to be more accurate. or a -2 save to show the superior relative penetration of a laser vs a projectile would add balance in RT.

 

[MichaelStockin]

Hey don't get me involved



I think they should stay as they are, I am happy with the stats and the autoguns being the same points.
My suggestion was just change the points to make the better gun cost more points. (Though I am happy with them as they are)

When I said accurate I meant my guess before reading the rules was an accurate summation of why IG used laserguns.:

There is no doubt something official written in RT or maybe a WD, but then part of the joy of the RT era days was thinking of reasons for some of the decisions that GW made about the setting.

I had a quick look at my copy of RT and was pleased and smuggified to see my reasons why they were used was pretty accurate.