WFB 3rd edition and questions of scale

DestroyYouAlot

Serf
Hey, all,

Been gearing up to attempt a Realm of Chaos game with Warhammer 3rd edition, which will be probably my first attempt at playing with those rules. I got started in mini gaming with Rogue Trader, so I'm not unfamiliar with a more skirmish-scale, scenario-based play style, but I had never attempted anything on the Fantasy side until I got into Mordheim a few years back, and then a handful of small games under 6th edition rules (unless you count Hero Quest back in the day, haha).

So far I think I have the gist of it, and I'm pretty excited to give it a go, but I had a few questions on a readthrough, and I was wondering how some of you have handled things. For example, I seem to remember that, at least at one point, Warhammer had a figure ratio (possibly 10:1?). Am I mistaken?

Also, I'm reading some of the early scenario packs - the Lichemaster, in particular - and some of the battles are with lots of small units and single mixed troops, which I'm intrigued with. How do you guys generally handle single figures that aren't necessarily "Heroes" (like the family at the farm in Lichemaster)? Do they get the same movement bonuses, for example? Are they protected from being fired upon the same way?

Furthermore, with the small unit sizes in a RoC warband, are there any real tangible rules penalties for this besides obvious fragility and not having a rank bonus?

All in all, I'm really excited about being able to delve around a little more in the Warhammer world without going whole-hog on a faction (as you kinda have to in a modern blocks-of-troops competitive environment). I have tons of this and that, 5 skaven here, a couple demons there, and since we're playing WFRP1e now, it'd be useful to have that stuff painted, but the tabletop game is what gets me inspired to actually put brush to figure, and I've already taken a big chunk out of the lead and plastic mountain.

DYA
 
Personally I've never viewed 3rd ed WFB as massed combat with a figure scale, but more a way to fight large skirmishes with 100 or so figures per side. 2nd edition was much more of a large scale skirmish set so you get non-heroic individuals fighting as per the scenarios. That is the beauty of the system and the oldhammer movement - its what you make of it. If you want it to be a scale of 1:10 then it is, likewise if you want it 1:50 then it is.

The scale thing doesn't bear too much thinking about - otherwise heroes are an anomaly cutting there way through hundreds of enemies each turn.

Hmm, on the other hand that sounds jut like some of the old Irish myths.
 
There is an appendix in the 5th edition rulebook on this very matter; however I can't remember what it says!
 
From my POV, for movement the scale is 1:10 - there is no way a unit of 20 soldiers has to manoeuvre in a block, it's ridiculous to think of tens of people marching around in little rectangle formations like that, and having strict formations. Everything else pretty much works out as 1:1. You can strip out unit cohesion and have something a lot more skirmishy, or go with the movement and manoeuvres of 3rd and have something much more mass-battly. Lichemaster is 2nd edition so it's not designed to use the complex manoeuvres of 3rd.

All individual models not in a unit behave the same, whatever their level, but I don't recall giving them movement bonuses. :oops:
 
Hello,

In my mind, you may can mix Rogue Trader rules for little skirmish games and WFB3 for big battle. It is the same rules.

Patatovitch
 
Sorry, on a catch-up on this tread in general - hopefully some of these belated responses are useful to someone.

Good to hear you getting enthused by 3rd ed, and yes, the beauty of approaching it as a game rather than a tournament is you can field whatever figures you have to hand and that appeal to you, and it should work.

As far as I remember there is no figure scale, only a ground scale of 10:1 (just for the sake of table space). So a unit of 5 troops really is 5 individuals, a hero is one figure, etc.

Single figures have advantages and disadvantages, for example they can be targeted by missile fire rather than being protected by a unit (although you do suffer a penalty to hit). Conversely they're highly manoeverable (no need for wheeling, etc).

It may seem odd to be doing manoevers with small units of 5 or so troops, but generally scenarios either have individuals or largish units (e.g. 10 or 20). And at that sort of size a unit would have to maintain a fairly coherent formation to gain the advantages of being in a unit, e.g. mutual protection, shield walls, etc. If you're trying to move as a coherent unit it's slower and more complex than just walking around the battlefield. You could find counter examples, such as highland clansmen and the like, but in general these faired badly against organised, trained units. This is all just my opinion of course, being fortunate enough to be involved in limited medieval battles, but there are some interesting videos on the subject on YouTube by a chap called lindybeige - look for "A point about spears", "A point about shieldwalls" and some of the follow ups.

Yes, in a proper battle units would be hundreds strong not handfuls, but I like to think of Warhammer as small scale raids and ambushes rather than battles. On the other hand if you wanted to view it as a large battle with a person:figure ratio that's fine too.


Paul / Grumdril
 
DestroyYouAlot":2fbkih01 said:
Hey, all,

Been gearing up to attempt a Realm of Chaos game with Warhammer 3rd edition, which will be probably my first attempt at playing with those rules.
Click to expand...

What! Steve! I had no idea you were into Oldhammer—we should throw some dice if I ever get out to your neck of the woods!

But yes, I think 1:10 is from 5th edition (or possibly 6th). Earlier editions don't seem to bother with the minutiae.

-Evan
 
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