Realm of Chaos Skirmishes?

[Katsuhiko JiNNai]

I'm reading the rules from the WHFB 3rd book. There are many cumbersome rules about movement in ranks, this could be necessary for play with big armies but for small skirmishes with less than 20 models it could be too static.
Usually how you play with you realm of chaos warbands? I was considering all the followers as unit of skirmishers. I never played to Warhammer because I don't like the rules about maneuvers in ranks and huge armies, in fact I prefer mordheim because the rules are the same but the movement is simpler and I can enjoy all the scenery on the board. I'm still reading the books, so maybe there is yet this option inside them

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Approach the rulebooks like a toolkit, use the bits that are useful and ignore the parts that aren't

So yes, I agree, just ignore the manoeuvres bit, its only relevant to simulating how large bodies of troops work.

 

[Piers B]

There was, for 6th or 7th edition, 'Warhammer Skirmish' which was Mordheim 'lite' in essence and works well for small games.

That said, 3rd works fine, just dont form up in ranks...

I use a mish-mash of various editions, with Mordheim elements for my skirmishes. One of the nice elements of Warhammer is that you can pick and choose the best bits from various editions and build them into what it is you want.

 

[ramshackle_curtis]

I would probably just agree with your opponent what they want to do. Realm of Chaos can have small amounts of troop sin it, so smaller warbands its fine to treat everyone individual or skirmish units. However, some units like chaos warriors, especially if you have 5 or more, make sense as a unit, and buying banners etc makes a big difference to a unit in combat.

 

[knobgobbler]

Certainly older versions of WHB see themselves as variable in the sort of games they can provide... some detailed elements seem obviously meant for skirmish level or even RPG sized forces.

I was just looking through some of the old Regiments of Renown and thinking I'd like to play some smaller skirmishes using them... formative adventures of mercenary bands. I don't really have entire armies for most of them to play within in larger games... only small amounts of elves and orks.

 

[ramshackle_curtis]

We used to let players decide themselves during game. Forming up a unit is a manouever and doing it means you get the bonuses from rank etc, then going into a skirmish formation means more flexibility.

 

[Zhu Bajie]

I would probably just agree with your opponent what they want to do. Realm of Chaos can have small amounts of troop sin it, so smaller warbands its fine to treat everyone individual or skirmish units. However, some units like chaos warriors, especially if you have 5 or more, make sense as a unit, and buying banners etc makes a big difference to a unit in combat.

5 chaos warriors marching in a straight line and doing pivoting manoeuvres always seemed very silly to me, so we ditched that immediately for skirmishing.

It's fine if you're thinking of the unit as 1:10, and that the models are actually representing 50 people, but there is no way 5 people behave like that.

It's a gamist / simulationist thing.

you get the bonuses from rank

Not in 3rd, unless you've got long pointy spears.

 

[phreedh]

Not in 3rd, unless you've got long pointy spears.

Unless you decide that you do.

 

[Blue in VT]

you get the bonuses from rank

Not in 3rd, unless you've got long pointy spears.

...well.....there is the combat resolution bonus you get for ranks even without spears. That's a pretty important bonus that favors larger units. Now they don't influence play as much as it does in 4th ed where the difference in combat resolution scores between opponents modifies the roll needed to pass rout tests etc.....but it can certainly determine if you won the combat in 3rd.

When I play a skirmish game I do as suggested above and pick and choose my rules from a variety of sources to make a fun fluid and fast game. Luckily I don't tolerate rules lawyers well so all my buddies are quite flexible as long as the game is fun!

...and that is the whole idea here right?

Cheers,

Blue

 

[Zhu Bajie]

you get the bonuses from rank

Not in 3rd, unless you've got long pointy spears.

...well.....there is the combat resolution bonus you get for ranks even without spears. That's a pretty important bonus that favors larger units. Now they don't influence play as much as it does in 4th ed where the difference in combat resolution scores between opponents modifies the roll needed to pass rout tests etc.....but it can certainly determine if you won the combat in 3rd.

Right you are! Carry on, carry on.

 

[ramshackle_curtis]

You need 2 ranks of at least 5 (it might even be 4 troops in 3rd ed, need to check) troops to get the +1 rank bonus in combat, which is probably not going to happen in a chaos warband, at least not for a few games.

To be honest though, Realm of Chaos works better if you apply house rules. There are so many errors, contradictions and stupid rules that it does need some fiddling to get it to flow smoothly. If you plan to play a campaign with all 4 powers, or with, say nurgle vs slaanesh you will need to doctor the victory points list (we give points for any follower slain, rather than only of the opposing power etc).

SO just agree what to do with your opponent, or give them the choice of how they use thier units.

 

[Katsuhiko JiNNai]

If I remember well in an old WD (from about 14 years I suppose) the GW studio created some new rules about the RoC, using the WHFB of that year (6th-7th edition?). I could do the same, but using the mordheim rules and the old RoC rules for the campaign rules, chaos attributes etc.

 

[phreedh]

If I remember well in an old WD (from about 14 years I suppose) the GW studio created some new rules about the RoC, using the WHFB of that year (6th-7th edition?). I could do the same, but using the mordheim rules and the old RoC rules for the campaign rules, chaos attributes etc.

"Path to glory".

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Path to Glory is very lightweight, not nearly enough random tables of random things.

Using Mordheim as an action and combat resolution mechanic with RoC warband and narrative campaign rules is a neat idea and will work fine.

 

[Erny]

I would probably just agree with your opponent what they want to do. Realm of Chaos can have small amounts of troop sin it, so smaller warbands its fine to treat everyone individual or skirmish units. However, some units like chaos warriors, especially if you have 5 or more, make sense as a unit, and buying banners etc makes a big difference to a unit in combat.

5 chaos warriors marching in a straight line and doing pivoting manoeuvres always seemed very silly to me, so we ditched that immediately for skirmishing.

It's fine if you're thinking of the unit as 1:10, and that the models are actually representing 50 people, but there is no way 5 people behave like that.

It's a gamist / simulationist thing.

you get the bonuses from rank

Not in 3rd, unless you've got long pointy spears.

In the real world even two men can make a useful shield wall.

So Five Chaos warriors facing some chaos knights from a top of a hill they must defend may well decide to make a shield wall. Hard to do when skirmishing.

We always play it that you can form up or skirmish as desired as a manoeuvre.

 

[Zhu Bajie]

assuming they have shields

The way we play skirmishing there is no difference between friendly troops being in base to base contact or loose formation. So two shieldbearers are able to defend a guy in a yellow t-shirt just as well without having to form up.

 

[Erny]

Shield wall is a rule in 3rd giving you a I think -1 to being hit though it may be a +1 to save. Either way it is a formation that takes some skill and practice to pull off. The key being formation

The brief search I did for real life two man shield walls had quite a few pictures of the yellow shirted man. Perhaps he is an expert.

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Shield wall is a rule in 3rd giving you a I think -1 to being hit though it may be a +1 to save. Either way it is a formation that takes some skill and practice to pull off. The key being formation

The brief search I did for real life two man shield walls had quite a few pictures of the yellow shirted man. Perhaps he is an expert.

Brazillian football supporters get in a LOT of trouble. Need protecting.

I'm sure a 40+ man shieldwall takes a lot to pull off - drilling, timing, coordination, discipline. But I think a handful of guys or gobbos can just shout to each other to stay together, keep shields up.

A medieval shieldwall has overlapping shields so that might give some extra defensive bonuses, beyond being simply some guys holding their shields up. But it's strength of numbers and holding the line, a small unit being attacked by another unit (also skirmishing) are going to face problems being jabbed in the flanks in the normal cut-and-thrust of combat (rather than a deliberate pincer manoeuvre).

There could be other manoeuvres more adapted for skirmishing, like the back to back circling around thing you see in kung-fu movies.

 

[Katsuhiko JiNNai]

Fine, I decided to use mordheim rules with RoC. It's easier for me and for my players. I Hope to enjoy a skirmish soon