Noob questions about Oldhammer ...

The Lord of Excess

The Lord of Excess

Serf
Ok perhaps this is repetitive of other threads and if so sorry about that ...

In short. I'm not a newcomer to GW, but I am to Oldhammer. I entered the hobby early 3rd ed. 40K/6th ed. WHFB era.

I have really no knowledge of 1st-3rd ed. Warhammer and I am looking for some guidance on which would be the best to embark upon for a small gaming club. We have about 12-15 members, most of the group is inclined towards skirmish level games.

What would be more intuitive for folks who have never done original style Warhammer. 3rd? Also what is most compatible with some of the current armies (or is there no difference, from what I understand about 2nd at least it is a points buy style game where you can play with whatever you want really ... you just build whatever you want ... is that correct?).

Forgive my noob-ness
 
Any edition is a great entrance into the genre and honestly you will find that Warhammer has never changed much since it's origins. Grab whatever edition that is most accessible or appeals to your groups aesthetic sense and run with it! As far as current armies, you can use any with any edition (and you can even use modern army books), but my strong advise is to never let an army list limit your game. Throw points out the window, build to your scenario and have fun.
 
I agree with the above, don't worry too much about which set of rules your using, I'm convinced that most folk would be able to have a game without the rulebook in the house just using a king of gamer-folk memory, just make sure that the scenario is king and the players know what is motivating their troops.
 
Read through blogs/thread here and decide what edition sounds about right. For me, that's 2nd (since it's a bit simpler/easier to read through) but it's just personal preference. It's all much the same anyway, even the modern edition is pretty similar enough. It'll be familiar enough to 6th onward, but you'll have to catch yourself a few times and un-learn a few rules. Even rules with the same name have changed quite a bit (hatred in 1st/2nd/3rd against 6th). Characters in 2nd seem closer to the current way (That is, champions, heroes and lords) while 3rd is a little more detailed.

As said, it may come down to what's accessible. I own all I need for 2nd or 3rd, but finding the 2nd army list book "Ravening Hordes" was much harder than the "Warhammer Armies" for 3rd, for instance.

If you're already convincing mates/members to play an old edition then you might do as many already do and completely ignore the army selection rules from 2nd's Ravening Hordes and 3rd's Warhammer Armies, unless you want all sorts of restrictions (starting Dark Elves? You must ahve exactly 20 x-bowmen, 40 warriors and 10 Witch Elves, Undead must have 10 scythe armed troops and so on!). Do as most seem to have done (and as the rulebooks suggest) and just use what you want but keep to a points value, use whatever looks good or let a GM decide.

Most troops today can fit in easy enough. You could use the points calculator from 2nd (you can find it online too) for anything that doesn't fit, or just proxy. I'd be inclined to just use the rules from later editions if anyone is dead-set on using a new model they bought. For instance, if my opponent doesn't want to use a Skaven Doomwheel or Bell as an elaborate chariot, we might just use the rules and points from 4th and just roll with it.

Anyone with Daemons might miss out in 2nd, where you'd need to use the rules from 3rd's Realm of Chaos books. Lizardmen would of course have to use the Slaan rules, perhaps a few monsters to fill out the dinosaurs, Ogres for Kroxigor etc.

Good luck. If you could get a whole group to play that'd be awesome! Bit of a theme at the moment, playing smaller games.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone! I will keep all that in mind as we move forward. I just finally got my hands on 2nd and 3rd editions this evening and plan to try to digest them over the next week or so and then start getting some games in.
 
I'd put it something like this. In Oldhammer -

  • The players are there to enjoy the game
  • The troops' motives depend on the scenario (fanatical win at all costs, not get killed, destroy their hated enemy, grab the loot, whatever...)
  • The army composition depends on the scenario

Points values provide a reasonable measure of the strength of an army. Scenarios don't have to be balanced in terms of troop values, but the scenario should reflect this (a hopelessly outnumbered side might be trying to escape rather than win, or just hold out for a certain period of time).

The army books (Ravening Hordes, Warhammer Armies, etc) provide a guide to what a typical, large-ish army looks like. But the scenario probably doesn't involve a typical army. Perhaps you have a rag-tag group of villagers with a few seasoned troops attempting to hold off an undead horde. Either have the GM pick both sides based on what figures are available, or have the players pick with some input from the GM. Hopefully the player's picks won't smack of min-maxing (if they do then remind them of point 1 above). The points system is open to abuse, which is why the army books came about originally, however somewhere along the way people started placing all faith in the army books rather than remembering it was an imaginative game that the players were meant to enjoy.

Best of luck with it, and hopefully all concerned will see a different side to Warhammer.

Paul / Grumdril
 
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