New WH supports old armies?

monoman

Serf
I thought this was interesting as it goes against the recent rumours that AoS will be a full reboot with no support for previous models (see the bumf below, fourth bulletpoint):

Also, the rules are free, only four pages long. And the turn sequence is longer:

1 - Hero phase (magic and 'hero actions')
2 - Movement
3 - Shooting
4 - Charge
5 - Combat
6 - Battleshock (combat res)

Wonder if the 'hero phase' marks a return to the hero-centric days of 4th ed?
Personally I'm still unconvinced - for me, WH is the Old World (which was apparently blown up.) And the new models look a bit 'space marines with hammers' for my liking...

CIqnQjDW8AAf6ic.jpg:large
 
I'm intrigued.


The models do nothing for me and I'm dubious about the 'measure from weapon' rules as they will mean figures get designed for optimum reach rather than dynamics/beauty. I am curious about how this will play though.
 
The biggest surprises for me are:

- No points values
- No more army books. This is odd IMO as you'd think they'd be a money-spinner. But it looks like rules will be provided in-box now when you buy the minis.

Rick Priestly will be spinning in his grave (if he was dead :roll: )
 
I REALLY do not like the sound of AoS or the new models which are out. It is not Warhammer anymore.

I only started playing in 4th edition and really the game feels essentially the same as then to me (obviously toned down heros etc).

From the sounds of it we CAN use our existing models, just a fraction of them using a heavily stripped down ruleset (probably the sort of game I would play with a first timer so they get the gist)

Sounds like they are trying to cash in on the whole Dota thing

/rant
 
who knows

I think Harry mentioned that they would eventually move away from supporting old stuff
 
If the rules are so different the big question is:

Can we produce our own free to download fan version of our Warhammer? This to me woudl be ideal like the Ad&D retro clones, when the game GW are making bears no resemblance at all to the game we are playing someting like netEPIC surely has to be viable. I know this was partly how the forum got started untill it was decided it just wasn't worth the bother and I suppose it doesn't matter so long as old copies of the rules are available.

It just seams a shame that there won't be any version of the rules in print anymore.
 
Horace":2vlswr99 said:
It is not Warhammer anymore.
Click to expand...

It's called Warhammer, and made by GW. It's Warhammer.

Personally I'm intrigued by it. I'm going to pick up the WD and see what it's all about, with an open mind. I might *prefer* 3rd Edition, but if they'd never released any further editions, they'd have gone under years ago, and that would be a *bad* thing for the wargames industry as a whole.

If it makes for a fun, playable skirmish game, I'm all for it.
 
monoman":3bxqfomp said:
- No more army books. This is odd IMO as you'd think they'd be a money-spinner. But it looks like rules will be provided in-box now when you buy the minis.
Click to expand...
Surely whatever profits are lost by not publishing books will be rolled into higher mini prices now that they have the 'added value' of included rule scrolls?

Not interested in this... though if history is a lesson I'll suddenly find it fascinating in about 5 years and rush to collect what I'd missed.
 
I'm curious about it. Certainly seems to offer an easier entry to fantasy wargaming that whfb. Which I guess would be the point of this game/edition.

A thread on a Danish war games forum(don't know if link to leak is allowed) have the whole rules and fluff from the upcoming white dwarf mag
 
knobgobbler":321nr3xn said:
monoman":321nr3xn said:
- No more army books. This is odd IMO as you'd think they'd be a money-spinner. But it looks like rules will be provided in-box now when you buy the minis.
Click to expand...
Surely whatever profits are lost by not publishing books will be rolled into higher mini prices now that they have the 'added value' of included rule scrolls?

Not interested in this... though if history is a lesson I'll suddenly find it fascinating in about 5 years and rush to collect what I'd missed.
Click to expand...
I read somewhere that the army books weren't very profitable anyway and where really only there to give you rules to use for models they wanted you to buy. If true, the loss of the army bikes may not be seen as a bad thing by corporate.

EDIT: spelling correction after DM quoted me :oops:
 
ardyer":2hwgcr1b said:
knobgobbler":2hwgcr1b said:
monoman":2hwgcr1b said:
- No more army books. This is odd IMO as you'd think they'd be a money-spinner. But it looks like rules will be provided in-box now when you buy the minis.
Click to expand...
Surely whatever profits are lost by not publishing books will be rolled into higher mini prices now that they have the 'added value' of included rule scrolls?

Not interested in this... though if history is a lesson I'll suddenly find it fascinating in about 5 years and rush to collect what I'd missed.
Click to expand...
I read somewhere that the army bikes weren't very profitable anyway and where really only there to give you rules to use for models they wanted you to buy. If true, the loss of the army bikes may not be seen as a bad thing by corporate.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the books, whilst not loss-making, aren't particularly profitable. Added to the fact they frequently ended up with a whole pile of 'dead stock' when a new edition came out that ended up being pulped.
 
Erny":38auwne6 said:
If the rules are so different the big question is:

Can we produce our own free to download fan version of our Warhammer? This to me woudl be ideal like the Ad&D retro clones, when the game GW are making bears no resemblance at all to the game we are playing someting like netEPIC surely has to be viable. I know this was partly how the forum got started untill it was decided it just wasn't worth the bother and I suppose it doesn't matter so long as old copies of the rules are available.

It just seams a shame that there won't be any version of the rules in print anymore.
Click to expand...


The difference with AD&D is that by doing the OGL WoTC created a legal framework for the earlier editions to get cloned. Basic D&D isn't even OOP any more (PDFs are for sale), so the free retro clones are directly competing. The legality of a Warhammer clone is (to my mind at least) questionable in that it may result in DMCA style takedown notices, even if a court might decide differently.

Would GW have a 'not interested' stance seeing as AoS is no longer the same game? Difficult to prove without testing.
 
dieselmonkey":1ue2rao9 said:
Yeah, the books, whilst not loss-making, aren't particularly profitable. Added to the fact they frequently ended up with a whole pile of 'dead stock' when a new edition came out that ended up being pulped.
Click to expand...

I can't believe that they do not make a proper penny out of the books - for 40K at least - given the prices they nowaday charge for them.
They have cut down heavily on investment (recycled fluff, and product pictures instead of artwork) and modern manufacturing processes in china also help a lot.
Sure, for 40K they have to keep a lot of books available due to the various factions, but noone fores them to do this in this way for AOS.
Personally I expect books to appear. Later. No army lists but collectons of those warscroll things, campaign stuff and something like that.
Recycled material in a pretty hard back package.
 
Theoretically, you can "steal" game mechanics all you want. You can't copyright rule mechanisms. You can patent them but, 1) GW doesn't appear to have gone that route (at least in the USA), and 2) patents on third ed. would have expired by now anyway.

The problem is where do you draw the line between mechanics and explanation of mechanics (which is subject to copyright)? And what about things like the model profiles? Can you call it strength, initiative, etc? To the best of my knowledge there isn't a lot of case law on the subject.

The one other thing to remember is that you can sue anyone for anything. You don't have to be right. And it still costs money to defend.

So (to steal from the Horus Heresy novels) the theoretical is that you can clone it, but the practical is "who knows?"
 
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