More Love for 90's Heavy Metal Warhammer

Galadrin

Vassal
Morg the Conqueror demands more adoration heaped before the throne of 90's Warhammer Fantasy Battle! Well that's not exactly right... 3e is the Heavy Metal edition... Maybe 4/5e is hair bands and glam rock? We got all the bright colours and big, sharp-toothed grins!

This came up over on Classichammer: 6th Edition was waay more balanced and fair than 90's Hammer. But Morg says this killed the magic! 4/5e was a crazy, chaotic mess that let you build any madcap scenario your twisted, immature teenage mind (addled on soda and pop rocks, no doubt!) could dream up while sitting in 6th period English class. Entire army of Warhawk Riders? Morg approves! Wanna try an army with nothing but catapults? Morg demands satisfaction! Then you hop on the late bus (detention again), trundle along back to your buddy's filthy basement, pour out your unpainted minis on the half-flocked sheet of composite wood you call a gaming table and play to the wee hours of the night.

90's Hammer may have been unrestrained, but it was giddy, glorious fun. Heroes were damn heroes (until struck by 23 simultaneous catapult attacks... See above), Orcs always smiled, artwork only came in cartoon-form, magic was a minigame, every army had special rules (which you always needed to look up during the game), the fluff was at its zenith and fun was the order of the day. Sure, it was broken, but every army could be broken. Everyone had access to the same ridiculously cool magic items, every army could bring crazy force compositions to throw off your opponent (often with a ton of proxying... Hey, we were highschoolers, not millionaires!) and everyone knew that the point of the game was to have fun. In fact, unless you played with a bunch of turds, there was always an unspoken code that the "rule of cool" outweighed "win at all costs." If you played with some downright level-headed and friendly chaps, there was no need for game balance anyway as they would always bring fluffy and fun lists that everyone would enjoy. In the end, the game encouraged you to think about how you would play it, rather than just an exercise in list building (i.e., everything from 6th onwards), precisely because the army composition rules were so loose. It made you think of cool scenarios more than perfectly tweaked armies.

Yes, we all knew it was broken, but we embraced that chaos and the possibilities of a freeform game. Of course, you couldn't be certain to play against your mates in the buzzing tourmament scene of the 90's, but even then, the tournaments always judged your victory points on numerous levels... Points for best painted army, points for fluffiest army, points for gamesmanship, points for most reasonable and balanced army. I mean, we all knew you could do broken stuff in the 90's... We were the ones that came up with the term Herohammer after all. But we also came up with great ways to get around that... I mean, check out the long list of restrictions you can add to your game in the 5th Edition rulebook! No monsters, no lords, no magic items above a certain point value, no level 4 wizards... We got by ok! "Broken" army books and rules were never a problem if you understood the point of the game was to have fun. The ability to embrace that reality and enjoy the ultimate freeform nature of 4th/5th is what made Warhammer Warhammer. Being perfectly balanced and fair just weren't the "fun things," for us! It's like a flat Coca Cola without the fizz... You need the little chaotic bubbles to make the magic happen (even if it is messy, comes put your nose and gives you a brain freeze sometimes)!
 

Galadrin

Vassal
And while I'm on it, can someone please upload a battle report with some damn unpainted miniatures in it? If I have one complaint, Oldhammer has gotten waaay too pretty. I wanna see a battle report that speaks to all those kids who could never paint like Golden Daemon winners and 'Eavy Metal artists back then and sure as hell can't paint like them now. I don't care about your paint job! I wanna hear about the havoc that was wreaked when your general was killed on turn two by a high-flying emperor white dragon ridden by a mummy and your whole army immediately fled the table! I mean seriously, did anyone play with a fully painted army even once in the 90’s? I'm going all punk rock anarcho-primitivist with this revolution!
 
There is some aspects of the overall "gameplay vibe" I can agree with here, but having grown up during this era, which also happened to be the era GW games "grew" in north america, playing with different people, there is a whole lot of negative feelings and memories I have towards it.

I will expand on this because of these vivid memories and differences, indeed you would be correct in saying 3rd FB was the "heavy metal" edition, but to be more accurate I would state that GW in general, from about 1985-1991 was the "heavy metal-punk" style and vibe.

4th and 5th were herohammer, not only this but it was the era for the entire citadel range, and it's art direction of being the ugly red period of cheeze and being quite sterile. It also saw the slow death of "adult" gamers as GW not only lost much of its "heavy metal punk" staff, it also was alienating many "80s gamers", the "who gives a "f$%@" attitude was no longer there due to many of GW's corporate changes, and also many of the more laid back adult type gamers were leaving games around the later 80s due to the bogus religious claims back then, instead what I was seeing was a ton of really nerdy guys and uppity pc like crowd getting into it all, along with many young kids.

Things may have been quite different in the UK due to the media and less ignorant population, but over in north america traditional rpg's and wargaming was steadily turning into a really "negative" social passtime, I still remember meeting late teens and early 20s adults who used to smoke, drink blast metal and sit around with a very "80s gw" attitude up till about 1992, and I truly miss those kinds of "gamers" because more and more in the mid and late 90s I was meeting nothing but the smelly kind of "undesirable" gamer that we all know is "THAT GUY" or "oh no no no no no we don't behave like thaaaaaaaaaaat" types from most indy stores in the last 20 years.

This actually pushed me out of even bothering to go to indy shops other than buying what I needed.

For me the worst part of this era was not only the paint jobs, but it was a totally static garbage mini sculpt era, I mean really look back at most of those 4th and 5th ed fb sculpts, look at most of the 2nd ed 40k stuff, it was all garbage and the only real difference in many of those sculpts was the metal detail vs the plastic, everyone had massive oversize weapons all raised up in the same pose looking lame as hell, when you compare this to 3rd edition and most of the RT sculpts, they all had character, there was lots of diversity between the minis, we could pick out by eye a perry twins "Range" along with jes goodwin and the work of aly and trish.

I clearly remember seeing the golden demon entries back then and they all made me say "god these all look like they are copying the goblin green rainbow bright sword em team look" which is basically what people were doing, in a way GW was pushing people to be as less creative and unique as they could be by the art direction and overall tied together look they pushed back then.

On the flip side we had blood bowl, warhammer quest, epic 40k and a bunch of other games, but really I was very let down when I saw 3rd ed BB vs the astrogranite pitch and JG sculps we saw back then, to this day the 2nd ed elf and skaven team kick ass vs anything GM ever sculpted. The art direction also took a major dive and turned into this cheesy cartoony profile style, vs the high end traditional quality art from ROC days and 3rd ed, or even RT.

This is exactly why I love Oldhammer, it's about the only "haven" out there for us oldschool 80s GW era gamers, other than maybe frothers. It's a way for us to relive those memories and that era that was in many peoples view, the classic golden era of citadel and GW before they went all lame pc corporate trash. Don't get me wrong I have some good memories of games from back then, and the chaos in the games was entertaining but that's honestly all I can really say that was positive about that era and am very happy it died and has stayed dead.
 

Galadrin

Vassal
Well, I mean aesthetics (which is the majority of your post) are to taste... I happen to adore 90's metal, 40k 2e stuff especially. I like the lumpy, odd 80's sculpt too... Very much so, in fact... But my personal preference is strongly for the 90's metal and it is the only stuff I collect now.* If you didn't like the "red phase," that is perfectly fine and I am glad you shared that, but as they say... Beauty is really, really in the eye of the beholder.

As far as the player base is concerned, I suspect that is contextual as well. I remember most 90's players not too be the "smelly, undesirable kind" but rather all young boys, like myself (once in a blue moon, a girl as well). That is because WFB really began in the 90's for the US, and everyone was new to the game and quite young. There were no older, weird types until the 2000's (maybe some of those kids who grew up, but never quite matured?). As for your ideal gamer, I have to say that I would never want to play with someone who was drinking, smoking or swearing during the game. Call me a prude, but if you don't do those things then it isnt nice to be around people who do.

*This includes all the 90's editions of the boardgames as well... Everytime I see the colourful, cartoony Blood Bowl 3e, Talisman 3e and Space Hulk 2e on my boardgame shelf, I get a huge grin... I wouldn't drop a penny on the 1980's or 2000 versions of these games, but I gleefully shelled out for shrinkwrapped copies of the 90‘s versions and would do so again in a heartbeat.
 
Rick is an interesting guy, I've never really agreed with everything he has said though nor do I really embrace a designer's opinions or movie stars or musicians as the be all end all say on things ( since I make those choices with my own mind ), I support his choices for say making LOTR 25mm, I love the sculpts and the realism vs the warhammer oversized weapons, they are some of the perry's most beautiful minis, and Rick himself along with other classic GW designers have certainly contributed "excellent" table top games, but there is a huge difference between a game designer and a miniature sculptor such as jes goodwin, the perry twins or aly.

4e in terms of rulebooks and fluff was excellent there was plenty of fluff and art ( many black n white by jb ), it had not quite entered into a total red period phase just yet, there was actually a couple of stages with citadel styles till it fully hit that "mono" crap, for example just a little bit after the sorta colin dixon style era, there was a slant towards dark green base rims with a cleaner unified sorta style especially with RT armies, part of that I think was Tim Prow but he also eventually moved into that early red period phase, it still had a very traditional citadel em look to it though, eventually what happened was all the stuff was painted crayola kiddie bright, the difference I think here between you and I is that while I was still quite young ( early teens ) I had in fact experienced the 3rd edition first, or at least been exposed to late 80s citadel which really stood out vs the mid and late 90s, because by that time almost everything GW put out was rainbow bright static pose weapons raised type sculpts.

Even today due to those sculpts it's difficult to make those minis look anything close to pro painted 3e or late 90s citadel, maybe it's because even though I was a kid I was suddenly seeing what was essentially a grimdark punky citadel style turn into a really horrible color choice kiddie style, it really turned me off and I think it was then I personally noticed GW was going down the tubes, perhaps the em team and much of the staff noticed this also and why those guys did leave, seems like ton's of them keep saying "The atmosphere was changing" anyway.

I'm not quite sure how the USA was but I know how Canada was, and what gamers were like in the 80s here vs the 90s and I sure did notice a massive change in "attitudes", its a little difficult also for those who did not experience all of the 80s to grasp also due to how fast society changed after about the mid 90s. I will be the first to admit also it's still the "1980s" in my house with attitude, I'm aware of how the world is today I simply totally reject it because it has no meaning to me, it's why I indulge in enjoying 80s era gaming and love what oldhammer is about, I don't hate GW today I still buy their products and some of their plastics I even think are a throw back to some 3e looks, but they are after all a corporation now and no longer by gamers for gamers and have not been since the red period.

Sure aesthetics play a part to a degree but still looking at the quality of certain JG sculpts from 3e vs 4 and 5e it's easy to see a very boring pattern here, I think that's really why his work has stood the test of time, why they are continued to be painted by new and old painters alike, due to the character, the style and quality. Where I have one of the biggest faults is much of the "evil" armies don't look too evil during the red period, paint jobs aside due to the art style being so cartoony, this is very evident on many of aly's chaos space marine sculpts.

However I think we could agree on one thing here, the mid 90s GW era is what really started that hard fluff type content and each army finally getting its overall coherent look, if good or bad that is what it really ushered in.
 
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