Lore or Law or Meh

MichaelStockin

MichaelStockin

Member
So something I kept meaning to try and get to the bottom of.

Why did GW paint Felix Jaeger with striped trousers?
I can't find any reference to that in William Kings books.

Why is Gotrek always shown with an orange hair-do when it is described as both red and orange depending on what story you read.
Also was his beard ever described as matching his hair?

Does anyone know, does anyone really care?
 
ManicMan

ManicMan

Member
well, with the hair, Red is another name for ginger hair. "Erik The Red", Norse Explorer, William Rufus (William II of England, Rufus being 'the red'). Orange, of course, being a bit of a cheat to colour ginger hair ^_^
 
Geroak II

Geroak II

Member
MichaelStockin said:
Why did GW paint Felix Jaeger with striped trousers?
I can't find any reference to that in William Kings books.
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I'd suppose this was just painter's whim. Striped trousers always look cool, just ask any pirate. Or Felix.

MichaelStockin said:
Does anyone know, does anyone really care?
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Depends on what one values in this hobby and how they see lore in general. Is it gospel to strictly follow by or not.

It's been quite a while since I've read any books from the Slayer series, but my honest opinion? Lore exists to deepen this fictious fantasy world - to give ideas and inspiration, not to restrict them. My thoughts if someone comes up with blue haired slayers? Cool! Home made lore why their hair is blue? Brilliant!

And if one wants to be lore accurate, here's my reasoning why I think it's fine to paint slayers' beards any colour:

Slayah.pngSlayah II.jpg

WFRP said:
Troll slayers can be recognised easily by their hair, which is spiked and dyed orange, and by the many tatoos which cover their bodies.
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WFRP said:
Giant slayers customarily dye their hair bright orange, rubbing in animal fat to make it stiff and spiky.
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WHFB 5.th ed. said:
Slayers dye their hair bright orange, and stiffen it with starch so that it sticks out at alarming angles.
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WHFB 6.th ed. said:
Now before his murder, prince Furgil sported a deep fiery red beard that was the envy of every dwarf this side of the World's Edge Mountains. In his grief Gudrun dyed his own hair orange in respect to the fallen prince.
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Citizen Sade

Citizen Sade

Member
Geroak II said:
Lore exists to deepen this fictious fantasy world - to give ideas and inspiration, not to restrict them. My thoughts if someone comes up with blue haired slayers? Cool! Home made lore why their hair is blue? Brilliant!
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Throbin Death Eye from The Dwarf Lords of Legend is depicted with blue hair and beard on the 1985 box art, but he might be a berserker rather than a slayer. His oppo Kimril Giantslayer, definitely a slayer and likely the first one, has orange hair and a white beard just like the WFRP cover. However, he has a mail shirt and a halberd which would likely get him booted from the later cult.
 
Geroak II

Geroak II

Member
Citizen Sade said:
Throbin Death Eye from The Dwarf Lords of Legend is depicted with blue hair and beard on the 1985 box art...
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And I frickin' love that! 8-)

Kimril is an oddity for sure. But that was probably sort of pre-slayer before GW invented any lore for them, or even called them slayers?
That's how I've always thought was the case anyway. So, slayers with armour are fine in my books as well.

Should add that WFRP cover is most definitely from Gotrek & Felix story 'The dark beneath the world' so that is actually Gotrek with white beard.
 
ManicMan

ManicMan

Member
Geroak II said:
Should add that WFRP cover is most definitely from Gotrek & Felix story 'The dark beneath the world' so that is actually Gotrek with white beard.
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John Sibbick, If you read the notes on the image, I don't think that's quite true (check I think Realm of Chaos 80s blog but mostly the one post on Awesomelies). The Dwarf is in fact Kimril Giantslayer, with Aldred Fellblade.

It was lated edited for use in "Red Thirst" story "The Dark Beneath the World"
 
Geroak II

Geroak II

Member
@ManicMan You could (and presumably are) correct here. It'se been a long time since I read about the story behind this painting.
I do have a vivid memory of reading how it was from POV of Felix in short story The dark beneath the world, but I could be misremembering it or just being plain wrong here. :)
 
Geroak II

Geroak II

Member
Slayers not wearing any armour came somewhat later. IMO it makes no difference; armour or not, a slayer is still a slayer.
The thing with lore is it will change. One can either stick with earlier lore or go with the new one. Neither one is wrong or right, it's all about opinion and point of view.
 
Geroak II

Geroak II

Member
How I see this hobby (not just oldhammer but wargaming and miniatures in general) is simply: Do what you like. Don't let anything affect the way you feel like doing. Don't let lore or opinions of others restrict how you want to do something. This is a hobby - meant to be a relaxin pastime from your everyday life. Embrace the escapism, embrace the freedom and most of all, embrace your own imagination.
 
ManicMan

ManicMan

Member
fair enough. While not so much with warhammer (For some reason), I'm a huge 'story' guy. My preferred video games are very story based, I prefer films which are story over plot (while some are okay, I tend to look down a bit on 'action films' cause the plot is as thin as tissue paper and only there to roughly give a reason for action). I can happily spend hours going through backstory and references and stuff..

I've done some things where I spent TONS of time writing backstory and stuff which doesn't really show in the final output, but I feel It kinda does as it gives reasons for things. Why did this character choose this choice which might seam out of character? well, it's because of this etc. (while I'll agree to some degree why people don't like it, One of the Sequel stories to the Last Unicorn (Sooz, a direct sequel to 'Two Hearts) does feature (spoiler) the main character getting raped. Some people moan that its not needed and the stories were always more family friendly, but if you look at references and comments, it isn't totally out of character or anything. The world in the first was shown as not being quite as nice as some 'wholesome' ideas, and sexuality plays a big part). For someone that just wants a nice story, the won't go into it and just say "Naw, didn't like that, wasn't necessary' but if you look into the story and stuff, it really makes alot of sense.

Though that said, I did find 3001: Final Odyssey was too much 'Look at the world of 3001' and the 'plot' was only there right at the end.

sorry, a little side-tracked ^_^ I like to have some basic 'lore' as in what Skaven are like, and then fit the themes with my stuff. For my Space Wolves, I'm working on a new Wolf Lord and I've used the theming (they are sci-fi norse barbarians) to help with ideas and theming for him. So bits are good. Just throwing away everything to come up with my own ideas which go soo far away, I would just think 'why I'm I doing these then? If it sounds like Chaos, why I'm I calling it Empire? etc.

but other then that, fine ^_^ relax, have fun
 
Geroak II

Geroak II

Member
'The world is not black and white' is an old and worn out phrase, but one that will stay true forever.

Agree with you about action films; 80s stuff can be fun watch and one-liners are funny enough, but the time they were made has passed and there's no turning back the clock. These days I prefer movies that have more to them than just "snapping your guard's neck, putting a fisherman hat over their face and telling a flight stewardess 'He's dead tired'". New action films are something I have pretty much no interest in at all.

These action flicks got nothing on my possibly favourite film of all time: 'The assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford'.
I can't recommend this masterpiece of a movie enough to you and anyone who's not seen this film before. This is the film that taught to me what cinematography means. It's a western and yet not a traditional western as one would imagine; bang-bang, shooty-shoot are pretty much absent and story drives the whole movie. S+ all the way from me.

ManicMan said:
Why did this character choose this choice which might seam out of character? well, it's because of this etc
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This right here is the thing why I like miniatures in the first place - stories.
"This mini is not some random Bob from the Heartland's farm, he is THE Bob from Heartland's, renown for sleeping late but working like a donkey in heat. Stories and background bring minis alive and gives a purpose for painting and pushing them around the table while make-belief and imagining stuff happening.
 
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chrisgoodone

chrisgoodone

Member
'sfunny innit? While us three friends have restarted our old hobby, there are definitely different approaches.
I'm kind've keen on a bit of lore to base things on, and have realised I'm massively more story/narrative interested than some others.
Saying that tho, I started running a DnD campaign a coupla years back with some other old friends (never run it before).
Same thing - theres rules monsters, lore monsters, minmax monsters etc etc - I think the 'fringe' of fantasy pastimes holds quite a few different broad 'types'.
The trick I think is to embrace all of it and make sure everyone's geek needs are catered for in the pursuit of fun.
(That said I have no interest in playing a mini game / wargame that doesn't have at least a premise or touch of story)
 
Brother Meredith

Brother Meredith

Member
Talking of Dwarf Slayers, are there any nice proxy minis out there? I have been picking up a few official models to build up a unit, but it ain’t cheep so on the look out for alternatives.
 
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