Idea for RPG elements into WH:2nd edition

[Tzigane]

I was thinking of creating a simple system to give some continuity to WH40K battles:
What do you think so far? Any suggestions?
Also not sure about the difference in "income", maybe it needs some underdog bonus too, so winning armies don't keep on winning.


Starting an army:

250 points. Half minimum squad size. (when the total points exceeds 500, minimum squad sized is normalised again. Any squads that have their numbers fall below the minimum need to have them replaced before any new units can be bought)
Boss and characters can be a champion or first tier hero, no second tier (warboss, captain etc)

After the battle, roll for each casualty:
On a 1-4, the model is dead. On a 5-6, the model recovers. If the model has more than one wound, add one to the dice results.
The winning player may buy new units and replace casualties for 5 d6 x 10 points. The losing player for 4 d6 x 20. If the result was a draw, both players roll 4d6 x 10.

Experience. Every unit gains one point of xp for every battle it has taken part in.
A unit can also gain experience the following ways:
- killing a large monster or a vehicle
- killing 5 human or 3 ogryn sized fighters
- holding or fulfilling an objective at the end of a battle.
- winning a battle (gereral only)

xp bonusses: (WIP, just some ideas)
2 xp - the unit may reroll all the dice for one single roll (e.g. The to hit rolls or to wound rolls.) once per battle.
4 xp - the unit automatically passes the first leadership test they are required to make. (what to do with immune to psych troops?)
6 xp - roll a d6 every time this unit gains 1xp until you roll a 5+, the unit may now upgrade a regular troop to a champion.
9 xp -
15 xp - ?

characters:
Characters who went out of action this battle must roll on the necromunda serious injury table. Treat "survice against all odds" as "gain +1XP"
For every 2 points of xp, they may make an advance roll on the necromunda advance table.

 

[Orjetax]

It's interesting.

Would you this in league games/ multi-player campaigns? Play with a GM?

I think a challenging obstacle is 'overcoming too much momentum for the side that keeps winning.'

Are the XP bonuses cumulative or do you cash them out?



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[Zhu Bajie]

Have you looked at the campaign section in Rogue Trader? it covers casualties and wound effects in campaigns (p. 237)

WFB1/ WFRP1/ WH40k:RT all use slightly different advance schemes where XP buys stat line increases, but I think your XP giving special rules (the re-roll, for example) is an interesting choice.

The winning player may buy new units and replace casualties for 5 d6 x 10 points. The losing player for 4 d6 x 20.

Is that a typo? 4d6*20 gives a higher average to the loser than 5d6*10 does to the winner.

In our Rogue Trader campaigns back in the day, credits (points) were earned though achieving scenario objectives and salvaging the enemies wargear, but maybe you're aiming for something more gamey and less narrative lead.

I think a challenging obstacle is 'overcoming too much momentum for the side that keeps winning.'

I think that's one of the larger challenges in designing skirmish wargaming campaigns, Realms of Chaos suffers from that, but then too much victory can lead to spawndom and wipe-out, so there is a limiting mechanism. XP makes sense with traditional player co-operative RPGs, but in PvP, it can favour the early winners too much.

Another issue is that if the PV system is biased or arbitrary outside of pure battlefield effectiveness (for example if PVs models the scarciy of troops in the universe, or underpriced to sell toys) then the balance issue will be compounded at each casualty refresh and troop intake phase, skewing the forces capabilities in 3-4 games.

Main thing is to have fun testing it out!

 

[Tzigane]

Thank you for the replies!

The x 20 is indeed a typo. I have since changed the income for both players to 5D6 x 10 to keep it fair.

The momentum thing is tricky, I'm thinking of the following:

Each player gets 5 territories. Each of those territories allows the player to recruit a type of units.
- vehicle factories
- artillery factories
- population centers (2x)
- headquarters

First, a normal battle is played. The winner can then decide to push on into enemy territory. A second battle can be played herafter, but the attacking player will only get 3D6 x 10 points for replacements and new recruitments, as they're in enemy territory and replacements are hard to get. If this battle is won too, a third and last battle can be played against the defender defending his factories/village.

If the defending player loses this, he can now only recruit the relevant unit types on a 4+ after each battle. For the winning player, the territory offers a slight decrease in price for the relevant unit type, or maybe an extra die to roll after the battle.

This could make sure that there is a dynamic where a stronger player will be attacking, but the defending player has a slightly larger chance of succesfully fending off the attacker, because the attacker has less to replace losses with.
But, once a few territories have changed hands, it'll be easier to win the campaign. The game has to end eventually of course.

Once a headquarter is captured, the player loses. Headquarters can only be attacked if two other territories have already been captured,.

 

[Orjetax]

An attacker/defender dynamic is a nice answer to the momentum problem.

Yes, it should be easier to re-supply if you're defending.

Would you use this in conjunction with the 2nd ed mission cards? Or assign new objectives based on the narrative? If the latter, do you use the same VP system or 'achieve objective and you win'?

Also, would you do something with # of turns/ game length or keep it as written in the rule book?


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[Tzigane]

Good questions!

At first I'd like to keep the battles as close to RAW as possible, to see where the gaps and inconsistencies appear.

 

[Tzigane]

Slight update! Changed income to 6D6, xp after a battle on 5+, added more xp bonuses and a chart for characters.

Starting an army:

The first army must be built with 250 points. Until the total army size reaches 600, unit sizes may be halved, rounding up.

Bosses and characters can be a champion or first tier hero, no second tier characters. (warboss, captain etc, the army is still to small to be led by awesome characters. )


Experience.
Every unit gains one point of xp for every battle it has taken part in on a roll of 5+.
A unit can also gain experience the following ways:
- killing a large monster or a vehicle
- killing 6 human or 3 ogryn sized fighters
- holding or fulfilling an objective at the end of a battle.
- winning a battle (gereral only)

xp bonuses:

Experience Bonus
2 - the unit automatically passes the first leadership test they are required to make.
4 the unit may reroll all the dice for one single roll (e.g. The to hit rolls or to wound rolls.) once per battle.
7 Choose: +1ws or BS
10 groundhuggers - The unit always counts as being in soft cover as long as they are 12" or more away from the unit shooting on them.
15 +1Ld and +1T


Characters:
Characters who went out of action this battle must roll on the necromunda serious injury table.
For every 2 points of xp, they may make an advance roll on the following table:

Roll Result
1 Randomise +1 I or +1M
2 +2 Bs
3 +1 Ws
4 Randomise +1 T or +1W
5 Randomise +1 A or +1S
6 +1 Ld


After the battle:

Casualties:
Roll for each casualty: On a 1-4, the model is dead and removed from the army list. On a 5-6, the model recovers and lives to fight another day. If the model has more than one wound, add one to the dice results.

Income and increasing the army:
After the battle, both players roll 6d6 x 10 to see how many points they can spend on new troops. This number may change according to the scenario.

Every player starts with 5 territories. These represent factories, cities and mining operations in use for military production. The 5 territories are:

• headquarters.
• Artillery factories
• Vehicle factories
• Population centers (x2)

A player may choose to invade another territory to capture or destroy it. A player may only attack the headquarter when two or more enemy territories have been captured. Capturing is done in 3 stages. The first battle is a regular open battle as the armies clash somewhere in the middle. the winner may march into enemy territory trying to reach the enemy infrastructure, the defending player may choose to intercept and fight an open battle.
After this battle, the attacking player may only spend 3d6 x 10 on reinforcements, as replacement troops are harder to get.
The next battle will be played using the siege scenario.
If the attacking player wins, he will have captured the territory and receive a bonus depending on the territory:

Headquarters: the defending player is defeated
Population center: -5/10 % troop cost
Vehicle center: -5% vehicle cost
Artillery factory. -5% artillery cost

The defending player can only recruit the relevant units on a roll of 4+ if all the relevant territories are lost.