How old is "oldhammer"?

Zennist

Serf
What do people thinks constitutes a model being "oldhammer"? Is there a specific cutoff date? Or is it more just a vibe? If it's a cutoff date, does it shift as we move forward in time? Or is it static?
 
Ask 10 people and you will have 23.79 answers :)

One that seems rather common to me is models of Fantasy 3e and before and 40,000 1 e.

For me personally, it is less about specific models, but more concerning the spirit. Warhammer 1e was created to allow people to play with all of their collected minis from different sources. Up to 4e or 5e Fantasy IIRC, there were always models in the army lists, for which there were no physical models (e.g. Lothern Sea Guard), and you had to kitbash or source from other manufacturers.

This is Oldhammer to me, playing Warhammer the way you like, not as is the current official GW way.
 
I'm gonna answer this a bit obliquely. The Oldhammer "community", "movement", whatever you wish to call it was born around 2009, so consider anything that was 'old warhammer' then to be safely oldhammer. Technically that includes 6th edition, however the people forming the community then were looking back to the version that was around when they were younger, so really at least a decade prior. As that was itself approaching two decades ago people who have come to the community later have different childhood experiences. In my opinion that doesn't make their childhood toys oldhammer, but also doesn't make their games not oldhammer if played with the predominant ethos of the earlier versions of the game- narrative, fun, a bit wacky. Before the scene of the late 90s and 00s became tournament focused and competetive. If the nostalgia of a gamer is for that kind of power gaming I would say, whatever models they use, their hobby is not oldhammer.
 
Very much more a vibe than a set of prescriptive definitions.

For me it was digging out my childhood models and reliving the joy they gave me, but have also been picking up more recent minis that were released during my break from the hobby, when my only connection was flicking through the occasional issue of White Dwarf or briefly browsing a GW store… Have been mainly focused on metal models, but don’t exclude all the early plastic sets that were released back in the day. Even then, I have been enjoying mixing in some more modern plastic bits with my older models.

The gaming spirit of Oldhammer for me is very much more narrative and fun side of things, definitely the opposite of “chasing the meta”, but even so we seem to enjoy discussing the minutiae of rules on here! I Certainly enjoy playing the 3rd edition and older games of Warhammer at BOYL, but also played Mordheim and Necropolis there too! I have been enjoying playing TOW at my local gaming centre, the younger gamers appreciate my old minis and play casual rather than competitive. I have also been shared some Turnip28 and The Woods stuff here too, both are contemporary games, but share much of the oldhammer vibe.

How do you see Oldhammer? I guess from your wish post that you started slightly later than some of us and chasing plastic sprue sets for collection & grading is a slightly different take on the hobby than what I have described?
 
For me, my first rulebook and start of collecting was 3rd edition Fantasy but I didn't start to play until 4th edition Fantasy and 2nd edition 40k. So I might be biased but to me 4th edition Fantasy (1992) still squeaks in as Oldhammer. It was before unit power creep and special rules for every unit (I have both the 4th and 5th edition army books for high elves and the change is bonkers, any army that didn't get an update was rendered near useless, like my poor dwarfs), and there was still a strong element of "change it to make you happy as long as you're being balanced and sporting, and everyone agrees". Later editions got more and more inflexible. It felt less about the players over time and more about rigid control, even to silly extents of retcon like dwarfs can't use spears. I liked my 40k when I could field about 2000 gretchin armed just with knives as a funny way to teach a power gaming min-maxing space wolf friend a lesson where we both had a laugh at the same time.
 
Sorry, that is an odd comment.
I know mine was cynical, but the designs of current Warhammer minis are really amazing. There are also plenty of older sculpts (metal and plastic) released for TOW and the occasional made-to-order release.
 
What and when is Oldhammer?
I guess it is different for each person.

For me…

Well in terms of model and rules age.
WFRP 1st edition.
Rogue Trader for 40k.
For WFB it is a bit different, for rules it is WFB 3rd edition but I feel that for some armies the models from 4th edition better match some of the illustrations from Warhammer Armies, so I would in some cases class WFB 4th edition era models as oldhammer, but not 4th edition rules.



WFB 4th saw the era of super capitalism arrive.
Boxed games, starter sets, an army book for each army, models costing more to buy based on stats regardless of cost to produce, named models with their own background and special rules.
For me 4th edition very much ushered in the era of here is our completed world with lore, now play as we say as it is law.
3rd edition felt very much more here is a rough setting with a tool box of rules, go have some fun doing what you will with it.

With 3rd you could field any character from the setting with a bit of creative thinking, no need to await 4th edition and the mad over powered special rules for named characters.
With 3rd the world was still unexplored and GW invited you to fill in the blanks and go create your own take on the setting.
Warhammer armies also made it clear to house rule stuff as you saw fit, it talked about limiting magic, magical items etc if you wanted more infantry focused games.


TLDR:

For rules that allow you to do what you want, WFRP 1st, WFB 3rd, and Rogue Trader.
For models, the RT adjacent models, and up to some WFB 4th edition era models.

YMMV
 
symphonicpoet said:
^I didn't think GW was allowed to release attractive miniatures anymore.
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Brother Meredith said:
designs of current Warhammer minis are really amazing.
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Attractiveness/aesthetic preferences are subjective. This is a different discussion... another one with no definitive answer. For myself I lost interest in GW's aesthetic direction from WFB 6th edition. I'm definitely NOT their target audience so appreciate the models aren't aimed at pleasing me! I can appreciate the technical capabilities of the manufacture of the current models but I don't like them visually.
 
Fimm McCool said:
Attractiveness/aesthetic preferences are subjective. This is a different discussion... another one with no definitive answer. For myself I lost interest in GW's aesthetic direction from WFB 6th edition. I'm definitely NOT their target audience so appreciate the models aren't aimed at pleasing me! I can appreciate the technical capabilities of the manufacture of the current models but I don't like them visually.
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I totally agree on that. The current 3d designed models are awesome in detail and production quality, but I hate them. They don't have any "soul" to them, if you know what I mean. Perhaps less for 40k (industrialized production, etc) but especially for Fantasy, I don't want all Chaos Warriors looking exactly the same, etc.
Also all the smoke/flame/magic effects modelled on... not my cup of tea.

From this perspective, Oldhammer for me means mostly handsculpted miniatures.

Except for budget projects, where the mono-pose, hardly detailed EM-4 plastics beat everything :)
 
problem is, and this is no offense to anyone, 3D modelling is FAR easier to get 'extra detail' then physical sculpting. It's also far easier with the slicing to do multipart models etc. One problem with alot of 3D designs people claim can be just printed, is they aren't designed knowing physical limits.

that said, there are some great waldos which let you physical sculpt directly into 3D (making it easier to 'undo' mistakes) as well as various gearing waldos for minimising hand sculpting.. but those things make my head hurt without out the mechanical design.

But yeah, less about design tastes and more about mm.. attuites and style? Though as much as they are great, the Perry twins are... interesting in that they prefer more real life human proportions in these figures (that said, I don't think alot of there plastics they sell are really quite there ^_^) and sad to say, what I know about Jes Goodwin is... hates old, loves new.. regardless of what the old and what the new is.. a big shame but I can name some artists (drawing ones) which kinda hate there older 'better' stuff.
 
Vibe is one answer I can get with.

Non-3D is an interesting new take. I still kit-bash and convert by hand to make all the things I need. My bits boxes are vast, I tell you, vast! So ... yeah!

Then there is the answer I always present as my argument: I have been playing since 1983 1st ed. I still use models from that time, as well as models produced before and after then. I still run GM campaigns in the same spirit, just ever bigger and ever more involved. And I am close approaching 60 years old. So ... I am Oldhammer. ;)
 
Brother Meredith said:
The gaming spirit of Oldhammer for me is very much more narrative and fun side of things, definitely the opposite of “chasing the meta”, but even so we seem to enjoy discussing the minutiae of rules on here!
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Confession: I don't know what "chasing the meta" means. Is it something to do with maximising advantage in competitions?

I consider myself an accidental purist in terms of Oldhammer because I gave up wargaming in '93 when I went to university, rather than as a protest against a creeping change in ethos. I'm interested only in the older rules and minis partly because I didn't grow up with the new ones.
 
Aye, that’s all its means. More prevalent with new editions with their regular updates/army lists and rules tweaking. The main AOS and 40k games get seasonal updates these days to help balance the armies… :roll:
 
ManicMan said:
sad to say, what I know about Jes Goodwin is... hates old, loves new..
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It is a bit of a shame given he was one of the best hand sculptors. But he's also always striven for greater dynamism and detail which are far easier to do in digital and multipart plastics so I can see why he would love that.
 
yeah.. I haven't kept an close eye on it but... are any of the citadel re-issues as part of the old world Jes Goodwin models? I know those eldar ones are (but WAY too high a price).. just it reminds me of a writer I'm... ugh.. don't know personally or anything but are highly mixed with him and his attuite, who when he was connected with a company that had reprint rights for an older comic they did a new version of, he made sure they didn't reprint some of his early stuff cause he didn't like them personally, even though the fans often liked them and wanted the 'complete collection' series to be complete.. but as long as he had a say in it, he was just able to stop them (he didn't have the rights, but he was high enough in the company to control such things)..

It's just I can picture citadel kinda deciding not to release some sculpts purely cause the people who did them are still with the company and don't like them more then fans not wanting them.
 
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