Custom chaos steeds

[Mister Rab]

A while ago I converted up a chaos knight riding a giant evil swan because, you know, Oldhammer. And Asslessman made me do it

Here it is:

The Rules Discussions question I have is this - how do I go about giving this thing stats, attributes/special rules and (for those times when it's not part of a GM-led scenario) points values. I had a look through the Big Orange Book, as well as Armies, and figure it's something a bit like a cockatrice but got no further than that. I've never done this before, so help would be very much appreciated

Thanks in advance.

 

[airbornegrove26]

I think a cockatrice is a good start. Possibly take 2-3 stats that you would like to beef up, take them from other stats or just randomly roll some dice. It is Chaos after all.
I personally always tend to make my random statlines weaker because I like the challenge. Hope that helps a bit.

 

[Mister Rab]

It does! It makes me think Im on the right track to take the cockatrice stats and see what "bodge-factor" they've added for the special rules by comparing it to Zhu's creature point calculator, just to see if I'm on the right track when tweaking.

Now don't you have a barbarian warband to create?

 

[Mister Rab]

Double-posting... tsk, tsk, Mister Rab!

Anyway, I ran the stat-line for the "best" cockatrice through Zhu's calculator, comparing it to a basic human...

	M	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Int	Cl	WP	PV
Basic Human	4	3	3	3	3	1	3	1	7	7	7	7	5

	M	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Int	Cl	WP	PV
Cockatrice	5	4	0	5	5	3	5	3	7	5	7	7	150

Now, by the comparison modifiers...

	M	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Int	Cl	WP	PV
Modifiers	0.25	0.5	0.25	1	1	4	0.25	4	0.25	0.25	0.25	0.25	X

where X is the sum of all those modifiers multiplied by the difference between the creature and a Basic Human, plus the BH's 5 points. If that X is 10 or less, leave well alone, you've got your final PV. If X is between 11 and 15, multiply it by 1.5 to get your final PV. If it's greater than 15, divide by 10 and round up to the nearest whole number to get your amount to times X by to get your answer. Still with me? Good!

Anyway, when I put the cockatrice through the mathematical hurdles... it went wrong! Oh noes! I calculate that it should be 75pts, rather than the 150pts in the BOB

Having checked my spreadsheet (twice!), I looked more closely at the special abilities. One of them is to do with petrifying opponents and is basically the same as the Freeze magic weapon characteristic. Add on the magic-freeze-sword value of 75pts, taking us to 150 - perfect! Add in that it can fly (easily worth another 25pts in my book) and all is well again with the world, particularly as that's the best the cockatrice can be!

So, my first attempt at this beasty is going to be:

	M	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Int	Cl	WP	PV
Chaos Swan of Doom	8	4	0	5	5	2	5	3	7	5	7	7	60

Special: Terrifying Hiss - the Chaos Swan emits a hiss that warns of death and destruction to its enemies which causes a -1 reduction in any enemy unit's leadership when fighting, charging, or being charged by the Chaos Swan of Doom.

Special: Of the three attacks, one is a bite, the other two are stomp attacks. It's wings are too stunted to be of any use!

The base cost comes out at 33.5pts, and the Terrifying Hiss is the Doomsounder magical instrument (p186, BOB) for another 25pts, rounding up to make sure I'm obeying the fundamental law of gentlemanly gaming - "Don't be a dick"

Comments and criticisms welcome!

 

[airbornegrove26]

Barbarian warband to create.... .....I'm on it I'm on it.

As far as the stats I think it looks good. I see you have restricted the stats. That works for me. If it was mine I might reduce either the S or T to 4 I think.

However I would welcome such a creature on any battlefield that I am on.

 

[weismonsters]

What a great miniature. Stats look good.

The only thing i would say is that a musical instument is designed to give bonus to a whole unit, and the points value reflects that. So I would reduce the point cost a bit if it is an ablity for a specific monster.

Edit: Hmm on second thoughts, the ability affects the enemy unit so cancel that remark.

 

[Mister Rab]

Thanks - with that feedback I'm happy enough with those stats to get him on the battlefield, breaking heads and changing some ways! This is going to be the general for my "almost entirely except for the bits that aren't" Warhammer Armies chaos army with a Tzeentch theme, so I wanted the swan to be a bit of a beast, but not ridiculous

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Yeah, it looks cool!

2nd Edition has giant riding birds called Culchan:

	M	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Int	Cl	WP	PV
Culchan	6	3	0	4	4	2	2	2	2	4	6	6	18

But, hey why not base it on a cocktrice? It's chaos after all.

I work out your Chaos Swan of Doom at 66PV - might be in the way the Ugezod Factor has been applied?

I think your dissection of the bodge-factor is probably spot on. But my preference is not to add on points for magical effects - as it's all a bit inconsistently applied, but as a rule of thumb, if a creature has a power 'naturally' - like trolls regeneration, or dragons breath weapon, then they don't pay for it, only pay for powers and bonuses from equipment. A bit like Flying, you'd have to add +25PV to everything that flies, which is fine if you wanna, but I can't see that flying equates to the cost of 5 human troops really - but consistency is the main thing.

Also IIRC, you have to add +50% to use a beast as a mount, at least in 2nd Edition. Not sure if 3rd does that.

Swans should have a special rule about breaking peoples arms with their wings

 

[Mister Rab]

Yeah, it looks cool!

Thanks! I've got a lot of pleasure and food for thought from your posts

I work out your Chaos Swan of Doom at 66PV - might be in the way the Ugezod Factor has been applied?

Yes, my mistake - I'd not included the base cost of 5pts in the calculation (I really should know better by now than to use relative references when c&p-ing in Excel ). I shall up it to 66pts. That does leave out the cost of the Terrifying Hiss but, after another flick through the bestiary, it really does seem that special rules are uncosted. Interesting!

Swans should have a special rule about breaking peoples arms with their wings

I thought about this - some kind of less powerful variation of the infamous Legbreaker spell... but his wings are so tiny and puny - I haven't even given him the ability to fly