Blog: Old Man Paints – Oldhammer Wargaming Figures
Owner: OldManPaints
Author: Tideswellman / Old Man Paints
Post: Crown Of Command Podcast – @oldmanpaints
Listen to the Podcast episode here
Josh:
Interview that we tried to do; this is the third time we’ve finally got together and had time to do it. I had to cancel a couple of times due to life stuff, so I’m glad Phil’s been very patient with me. We had a really long chat. He sent me some questions beforehand, things he’d like to discuss, which I’m really glad he did.
I usually don’t structure interviews. Usually, it’s free form. No preset questions, just an organic conversation. But in this case, Phil sent me some questions, which was great, and we went through them as best we could. I hope you enjoy listening to our interview today. So thank you very much, guys. Enjoy the BringAid-led coverage this weekend, and for those attending, please get there safely and enjoy your weekend. Thanks, guys. Enjoy the interview.
Alright, Phil, well thanks, mate, for making this happen. It’s been a long time coming—third time lucky, as they say—and you’re back fresh from your holidays in Wales. How was your trip, mate?
Phil:
Yeah, it was good, actually. Thanks, Josh. Thanks for having me on as well. It’s been a bit of a crazy time, hasn’t it? We keep missing each other, like ships that pass in the night. I just took a week off to decompress, get away from the computer screen and work, you know?
Josh:
Nice, mate. I would have told Owen Staten you were coming to give you a full tour of Wales while you were there.
Phil:
Owen Staten?
Josh:
Yeah, you know him. He’s the voice of a lot of folklore podcasts. He did the Dwarf Deep Dive podcast and another interview with me recently about the Time Between Times podcast that he runs. He tells tales of folklore from Wales or around the British Isles.
Phil:
Ah, right, I think I’ve heard one of those. Just didn’t connect the dots for a second there.
Josh:
I’ve always said Owen should run some kind of folklore tour, like Geek Nation Tours, where he takes people to historic or significant places and tells the folklore and myth behind them. I reckon that would be a great package for people. Next time I know someone’s going to Wales, I’ll have to tell Owen in advance so he can show them around.
Phil:
Yeah, that’d be really good. ..While I was there, I did actually visit a model shop and picked up a little painting handle.
Josh:
What kind of one? I’ve never bought one before.
Phil:
I always make my own, but I thought I’d push the boat out—seven quid!
Josh:
Haha, well, if you like champagne, you’re going to have lots of fancy painting handles. I just use Blu Tack and other stuff I’ve collected over the years.
Josh:
I’ve always said Owen should run some kind of tour. He’d be perfect at it—doing a folklore tour during the holidays, like Geek Nation Tours does. He takes people to places around the world and tells them about the history and any sort of significant places in the location. If Owen did that, telling tales and stories about the places they’re visiting, to give it a sort of mythic feel with all the folklore and mythological history, it would be a really cool experience. Next time I know someone going to Wales, I’ll have to tell Owen in advance so he can show them around.
Phil:
Yeah, it would be really good, actually. While I was there, I did actually look up a model shop and thought, “I wonder if they have any Warhammer stuff?” And they did! I bought myself a little painting handle.
Josh:
What kind of one? I’ve never bought one before.
Phil:
I always make my own. So, I thought, yeah, I’ll push the boat out. Seven quid.
Josh:
Yeah, well, if you like champagne, then you’re going to have lots of fancy handles with that Blu Tack. I’ll just say, I’ve collected those over the years, and I’ve cut them in half and used them. I think I have so many now, I’ve had to throw some out, but I’ve kept my best ones. But apart from that, I’m glad you had a good, restful week away in Wales. But you’re here to talk about how you discovered the hobby, mate. So let’s lead into that and maybe talk a bit about yourself, where you’re from, and how you got into the hobby.
Phil:
Yeah, sure, sure. Okay, so anyway, I’m Phil, and most people in the hobby might know me from my Instagram handle because I paint quite a bit and post videos—Old Man Paints. I’ve been in the hobby since the mid-90s, or no, sorry, the mid-80s, around 1986 I reckon I got into it.
It was quite by accident because I had no interest in Dungeons and Dragons or Warhammer per se. But some of my mates from my hometown—when you’re about 14 or 15 and just mooching around with nothing to do—one of them discovered Dungeons and Dragons and asked if I wanted to come and play at his house. So we thought, yeah, sounds cool, we’ve heard of it, we’ve seen the film. So we went up there, and my mate Egg was the Dungeon Master, and all I can remember is a lot of arguments across the table between the Dungeon Master and the players. That turned me off it a bit, but one thing I did love about it was the little miniatures. I remember when we first started, we were each handed a miniature and told, “This is your avatar in the game; keep it safe. You can paint it up or whatever.” That was your character for the game, which I thought was totally ace.
I wasn’t a complete novice to miniature painting because, prior to that, I’d been into Tamiya models—those Japanese 1:32 scale models. I always loved painting those with Humbrol paints and making little dioramas. But when I saw this little lead figure, which I think was Boromir from the second edition of the Lord of the Rings figures, I was completely entranced by it.
Phil:
The next weekend we said, “Shall we go to Sheffield?”—which is the nearest city in England to where we lived. And we went to the Games Workshop, which was a shop I’d only ever walked past. When we first went in there, I was blown away. Fantastic cabinets full of figures, all painted up beautifully. I must have spent about an hour just looking at those.
There was a wall of blister packs with different figures, so many different types of creatures and stuff like that. Looking back now as a 50-year-old, I think, “Wow, why didn’t I buy more stuff back then?” because it was so cheap. But obviously, prices were relative, and that stuff was expensive back then. But yeah, that’s how I got into it.
Josh:
Nice, mate. That’s a great story. And I’m really glad you managed to go to the Games Workshop and discover more miniatures, getting deeper into the hobby.
Phil:
Yeah, exactly. Buying miniatures week after week, it became like a weekly pilgrimage. The object of my desire was always the cabinet.
The cabinet in Sheffield at that time was particularly good. Maybe I’m looking at it with rose-tinted glasses, but I’d honestly say it was one of the best cabinets I’d ever seen. Later, through the years, I went to different Games Workshops—Derby, Manchester, Nottingham—and I think only Nottingham’s was marginally better than Sheffield’s. I’d say Sheffield had fantastic painters back in those days, and it became my goal to get my figures into that cabinet.
Back then, Games Workshop enthusiasts could bring their figures into the shop, and the staff would put them in the cabinet for display with a little sign saying “painted by [your name].” So as a teenager, I was a bit ambitious, but I did manage it eventually.
There was a guy who worked there, and he was really encouraging. I’d keep bringing in my miniatures thinking, “This one’s going to make it into the cabinet.” But he’d look at it and say, “Nah, it’s not good enough, Phil. The boots are patchy, the colours are wrong, look at the face, look at the eyes.” He just kept pushing me to improve the figures until I finally got one in there. His name was Kenny Crow, and he was a fantastic painter for the time—better, in my opinion, than some of what we saw in White Dwarf. He was top-drawer.
When I first started, we were painting with Humbrol enamels, thinning the paint down, and the figures were very bland. Then Games Workshop launched a new range of acrylic paints—Titillating Pink, Bestial Brown, Skull White. I’m sure most people listening will remember some of those colours. Just opening those pots of paint was such a joy. Painting with them was much easier compared to Humbrol enamels. No shade to Humbrol, but the fact that you didn’t have to use thinners made it a lot better.
Josh:
Yeah, were they the same paint sets with those amazing Golden Demon covers and everything on them?
Phil:
Yeah, that’s right. I think the first paint set I had might have been the second one they released. The first one was called something like the Colour Paint Set, and the second one was the Monster Paint Set. That was the first one I ever bought. Then they brought out inks, and they came in little dropper bottles. I remember opening them and thinking, “This is game-changing.” You could do a wash with just a drop of water, and shading would appear instantly.
Josh:
Yeah, man. I remember being blown away by that. It seems silly now because we all take it for granted, but back then it was game-changing. For me, it was the same when I first discovered those paint sets. I could brush away my Tamiya acrylics and find something far less smelly and easier to use. It was game-changing for everybody.
I did notice they released a paint set before those ones. I’m trying to think of the artist who did the cover—was it Bob Naismith? He did all the art for those early paint sets.
Phil:
I think you’re right. I’m pretty sure the set you’re talking about had the Chaos Warrior on the cover, crushing a skeleton guy with his hammer. I’m pretty sure that was the paint set before the Bob Naismith-covered ones.
Josh:
Yeah, I think so too. It’s amazing how much you learn coming back into the hobby. There’s so much history that you weren’t aware of back in the day. In those days, the people making miniatures and setting up Games Workshop weren’t famous—they were just people doing a job. But now they’ve got cult-like status. There’s so much to learn about figures, paints, first editions, compendiums—it’s endless.
Phil:
Exactly. I’ve learned so much from others since returning to the hobby. Back then, nobody talked about the people behind the scenes, but now, with all these interviews of former Games Workshop employees, it’s fascinating.
Josh:
Mate, what are your other influences, do you think?
Phil:
Yeah, well, like I say, before I got into this stuff, I was always into science fiction and kind of action-war type stuff. So, you know, if you list the stuff of the 80s, it’s Action Man and Action Force. I don’t know if you had Action Force over there, but anything sci-fi like Blake’s 7 and Star Wars.
Josh:
Yeah, even from being a kid of about 10, I used to have those little green army men. I used to have hundreds of them, which I collected from friends, cousins, and wherever I could get them. I had this massive box, which I’d tip out on the lounge carpet, and I’d have wars behind the couch.
Then, I got a game for Christmas once from my mum and dad called Crossbows and Catapults. Have you heard of that?
Phil:
Sure have, mate, yeah.
Josh:
I think it was MB Games, and I had loads of fun playing that game on its own. Then I integrated it with my green army men wars by putting stronger elastic bands onto the catapults, so they became absolutely lethal. They fired these round puck things, like ice hockey pucks, didn’t they? And I’d fire them across the lounge, wiping out 20 army men at a time.
Phil:
That’s pretty neat. I started painting the army men too, and that progressed into Airfix planes, tanks, Tamiya models, Italeri, that sort of stuff, you know. So, I guess I’ve always been into that kind of thing. Through the teenage years, I also became aware of what I’d call counter-culture art, like Leonardo da Vinci’s anatomy drawings, or Iron Maiden’s heavy metal album covers—zombies, monsters, creatures, you know?
Josh:
Yeah, absolutely, mate. I remember all those days. I remember kids at my high school meticulously drawing the Iron Maiden logo on the back of their school bags.
Phil:
Yes, that’s it. At the time, anything related to heavy metal was totally thought of by the establishment as being a no-no. I think we all know better now, but I got into so much trouble for having Iron Maiden t-shirts or painting their logo on my jacket. Everyone was like, “You’re a Satanist,” and I was like, “No, I’m not!” I didn’t know anything about Satan. But I loved anything that was rebellious, just to thumb my nose at authority. So, Iron Maiden appeared everywhere. I loved World War II posters and that sort of stuff too.
Josh:
Yeah, nice, mate. So, what about comics? Did you get into comics during those days as well?
Phil:
Yeah, so I think, to be fair, I wasn’t really into the DC and Marvel stuff at the time. I was aware of it, but the storylines seemed a bit advanced for my brain. I was more into the drawings. I’d buy the comics just to look at how they were drawn, how each panel ran into the next. I loved the style where it bled from one cell to the next, where Batman or another hero would knock out a villain, and he’d fly across two or three panels.
I also got into more serious stuff like Boris Vallejo. He did fantasy paintings in oil. They sort of took their inspiration from… what’s the guy called who did Death Dealer? I forget his name now.
Josh:
Frazetta?
Phil:
Yes, Frank Frazetta! That’s the one. And then, when I was a kid, I found a Playboy magazine, and there was an artist being featured called Alberto Vargas. He did those beautiful 1950s-style pin-up girls, like the ones painted on World War II airplanes—Memphis Belle and that sort of thing.
Josh:
Right, well, Playboy’s got respect, mate, so don’t worry about that. I think it’s like an ordinary magazine now, isn’t it?
Phil:
I think it is these days, but at the time, it was risqué. But yeah, Vargas was an amazing artist.
Josh:
So, going back to miniatures, mate, you’re here to talk about how you discovered the hobby. What was the first White Dwarf magazine you bought?
Phil:
That’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot, and I’m not 100 percent sure. I reckon it might have been issue number 76. But I’m not entirely sure if that was my first one, or if I just remember it well. I definitely had that one, though. I also had number 84, which had an Ian Miller cover featuring Savage Orcs.
Those ones stick in my head. I’ve picked up quite a few over the years. But sometimes, it was the cover that made me buy it. I pretty much always bought it, but the cover got me excited. I think issue 102 was a great one, with Les Edwards’ Dark Future on the cover. That one sticks out.
Josh:
Yeah, some amazing artists back then. White Dwarf was quite something during those early days. You could tell they invested a lot into it. So, can you remember what other early influences shaped your hobby interests?
Phil:
Yeah, like I said, anything that was a bit counter-culture or rebellious appealed to me. I was really drawn to the Iron Maiden covers, to heavy metal in general, and to art that had that edge. Also, anything that was a little bit dark or mythological. Stuff like Conan the Barbarian, Excalibur, and Highlander. I had all those on VHS and watched them repeatedly.
Josh:
Oh, Highlander, yeah. Even something like Willow, which had dark undertones. Watching it again as an adult, you realise how much dark, occult stuff was in it.
Phil:
Exactly. It’s amazing to think we watched that stuff as kids, but it definitely had some darker themes.
Josh:
Yeah, totally. So, going back to your hobby journey, you mentioned your involvement in Golden Demon competitions?
Phil:
Yeah, that’s right. The guy at Sheffield Games Workshop, Kenny Crow, he told me about the Golden Demon competition. I had no idea what it was at the time. He explained that it was an event where you painted a figure, entered it into categories, and if you got through the heats, you’d go to Games Day to compete against the world’s best painters.
At the time, I thought I wasn’t in that league. But Kenny encouraged me, so I entered. I’d just bought the Skarloc’s Wood Elf Archers box set, and I decided to paint Skarloc himself for the competition. It was the best figure I’d ever painted at the time. I entered it, and to my surprise, I won the heat and got to go to Games Day.
Phil:
I entered Skarloc in the heat and won. I got a letter from Games Workshop saying, “Congratulations, you’ve won the heat with a single figure, and you’re going to Games Day.” That was amazing. My mates at school were blown away, saying, “Oh my God, you’re going to Games Day! What if you see John Blanche?” It was a big deal.
My dad said he would take me, but we didn’t have a car, so we had to go on the bus to Derby, and then we caught a train to my auntie’s place in Uttoxeter in Staffordshire. The next day, we took another train back to Derby for Games Day. My dad just mooched around the city all day while I was at the event.
Josh:
That’s amazing. What a hero your dad was!
Phil:
Yeah, he was. I remember I met John Blanche that day. I was walking down the main concourse, and I saw him coming towards me. He had his trademark cut-off denim jacket on. He was much younger back then, probably younger than I am now. I stopped him and said, “You’re John Blanche, aren’t you?” and he said, “Yes, I am.”
I didn’t have anything for him to sign, so he pulled an apple out of his pocket and signed it for me. I kept it for a while, but obviously, you can’t keep an apple forever!
Then, I asked him if he could help me get my figure photographed for the book they published every year. I couldn’t believe how cheeky I was to ask that, but he agreed. He took my figure out of the cabinet and had it photographed, and it’s in the Games Day book from 1989.
Josh:
Wow, that’s awesome! I used to have that book. I’ll have to hunt down a PDF of it and check out your miniature. It’d be great to see it in print.
Phil:
Yeah, it was pretty crazy. Although I need to clarify, I didn’t end up entering Skarloc at Games Day. A week before the event, I painted a Space Marine Scout and thought, “This is better than Skarloc.” So for some reason, I took the Scout to Games Day instead. It wasn’t as good as Skarloc, and I kick myself for it now. The Scout was the one that got photographed and put in the book.
To make matters worse, they also attributed another Eldar Scout to me, which I didn’t paint. I still feel guilty about that—someone out there didn’t get credit for their work.
Josh:
I can imagine! It must still rankle after all these years. Did anything else stand out from Games Day ’89?
Phil:
Yeah, there was this crazy game they were showcasing at Games Day, involving GobbledeGook, a goblin character from White Dwarf. The game involved these little coaster-like cards with goblin pictures on them. ‘Oi dats my leg‘ – There was a huge crowd around the table, and I didn’t really know what was happening.
I picked up one of the cards, thinking they were freebies. Then all these kids started staring at me, and a Games Workshop staffer came over and asked, “Did you take one of those cards?” I said, “Yeah, I thought they were free,” but they weren’t. I was so embarrassed!
Josh:
Oh man, I can imagine how awkward that must have been!
Phil:
Yeah, I wanted the ground to swallow me up! But overall, it was a great day. I got my picture in the book, I met John Blanche, and despite the little card mishap, it was a fantastic experience.
Josh:
Do you remember who won the Golden Demon that year?
Phil:
Good question! I think it might have been Steve Blunt. He had this amazing Nurgle Demon on a chariot with skeletons. It was incredible. I remember seeing it up close, and it was so smooth. It would still do well in today’s competitions.
Paited by Steve Bunt: Photo credit – Realm of Chaos
Josh:
Yeah, it’s incredible to think how far the hobby’s come. Speaking of painting, I’ve noticed a lot of new paint ranges coming out recently. What paints do you use these days? Are you still using some of the old Citadel paints, or have you moved on?
Phil:
I’ve got a bit of a mix. I’m not one of those paint collectors with racks of hundreds of paints. I have two small drawers—one for dropper bottles and one for Citadel pots. I’ve got a bit of nostalgia for the older stuff, but I mainly use Vallejo these days. Their model colour range is great for army colours—browns, leathers, silvers, gunmetals, and the like. I still use Citadel paints, but I don’t like the pots. They’re prone to drying out, and they knock over too easily.
Josh:
Yeah, the Citadel pots are notorious for that. I’ve moved on to Vallejo as well. Their dropper bottles are so much better, and the paint consistency is great. I’ve also tried some of the newer brands like Pro Acryl and Duncan Rhodes’ paints. They’re all really good.
Phil:
Yeah, I’ve heard good things about Duncan Rhodes’ range. I’m always tempted to try new paints, but I like mixing my own colours. If I need a certain shade of green, I’ll mix it myself rather than buying a specific pot. It keeps things interesting, and I’m not too worried if two orcs come out slightly different colours—that’s how it is in the real world!
Josh:
Exactly! I think keeping it simple and focusing on technique is the way to go. You don’t need thousands of paints. What about painting heroes, past or present? Who are some of your inspirations?
Phil:
Oh, there are so many! Back in the day, it was definitely Kenny Crow. He’s still a hero of mine. He pushed me to get better and gave me the confidence to keep going. John Blanche, of course, is a massive influence. His work in White Dwarf and his conversions were mind-blowing. I’d see his freehand Mona Lisa on a Minotaur’s chest and think, “How did he even do that?”
Minataur Conversion by John Blanche
There was also a guy at school named JC, who was kind of a rival. He was a great painter, even doing non-metallic metal back in the late ’80s, which was unheard of. He wasn’t very encouraging, always telling me my work wasn’t as good as his. But it spurred me on to improve. Sometimes, a bit of rivalry is good for motivation.
Josh:
Yeah, having a rival can definitely push you to improve. It’s good to have someone to compete against, even if it’s just friendly competition. Speaking of improvement, do you have any current hobby goals or aspirations?
Phil:
Yeah, I think just to keep going and keep improving. I want to grow my online community—get more Instagram followers, and maybe do more YouTube videos. I also want to finish my backlog of unpainted miniatures. It’s a long-term goal, but I’m getting there!
Josh:
Yeah, I think we all have a backlog! I’m in the same boat. But it’s nice to have a goal, even if it’s just to finish painting everything in the lead pile.
Phil:
Exactly. I’d like to leave behind something useful, too. I’ve written thousands of articles over the years, and I’d like to think some of them have been helpful. Maybe I’ll leave something behind for my daughter to enjoy or, who knows, maybe sell off someday!
Josh:
Yeah, it’s funny to think about that. I’ve been cataloguing my miniatures, so if something happens to me, my son will have an idea of what it’s all worth. It’s a bit grim to think about, but it’s important!
Phil:
Yeah, that’s definitely a good idea. I don’t want my family to just throw everything in the bin, thinking it’s junk!
Josh:
Exactly, mate. Well, Phil, thank you so much for your time today. It’s been a really interesting conversation, and I’m grateful you made this happen.
Phil:
Thank you, Josh. I’m really glad we finally managed to do this. And thanks again for everything you’ve done with the Crown of Command podcast. It’s been a great source of inspiration, and I know a lot of people really appreciate it.
Josh:
Thank you, mate. That’s very kind. I’m glad we connected through Instagram, and I look forward to seeing more of your work. Take care and have a great rest of your day.
Phil:
Thanks, Josh. You too. And good luck with your painting!
Josh:
Thanks, Phil. All the best!
https://embed.podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/oldmanpaints-phil/id1512960547?i=1000664095153
Continue reading on the Old Man Paints blog
Owner: OldManPaints
Author: Tideswellman / Old Man Paints
Post: Crown Of Command Podcast – @oldmanpaints
Listen to the Podcast episode here
Josh:
Interview that we tried to do; this is the third time we’ve finally got together and had time to do it. I had to cancel a couple of times due to life stuff, so I’m glad Phil’s been very patient with me. We had a really long chat. He sent me some questions beforehand, things he’d like to discuss, which I’m really glad he did.
I usually don’t structure interviews. Usually, it’s free form. No preset questions, just an organic conversation. But in this case, Phil sent me some questions, which was great, and we went through them as best we could. I hope you enjoy listening to our interview today. So thank you very much, guys. Enjoy the BringAid-led coverage this weekend, and for those attending, please get there safely and enjoy your weekend. Thanks, guys. Enjoy the interview.
Alright, Phil, well thanks, mate, for making this happen. It’s been a long time coming—third time lucky, as they say—and you’re back fresh from your holidays in Wales. How was your trip, mate?
Phil:
Yeah, it was good, actually. Thanks, Josh. Thanks for having me on as well. It’s been a bit of a crazy time, hasn’t it? We keep missing each other, like ships that pass in the night. I just took a week off to decompress, get away from the computer screen and work, you know?
Josh:
Nice, mate. I would have told Owen Staten you were coming to give you a full tour of Wales while you were there.
Phil:
Owen Staten?
Josh:
Yeah, you know him. He’s the voice of a lot of folklore podcasts. He did the Dwarf Deep Dive podcast and another interview with me recently about the Time Between Times podcast that he runs. He tells tales of folklore from Wales or around the British Isles.
Phil:
Ah, right, I think I’ve heard one of those. Just didn’t connect the dots for a second there.
Josh:
I’ve always said Owen should run some kind of folklore tour, like Geek Nation Tours, where he takes people to historic or significant places and tells the folklore and myth behind them. I reckon that would be a great package for people. Next time I know someone’s going to Wales, I’ll have to tell Owen in advance so he can show them around.
Phil:
Yeah, that’d be really good. ..While I was there, I did actually visit a model shop and picked up a little painting handle.
Josh:
What kind of one? I’ve never bought one before.
Phil:
I always make my own, but I thought I’d push the boat out—seven quid!
Josh:
Haha, well, if you like champagne, you’re going to have lots of fancy painting handles. I just use Blu Tack and other stuff I’ve collected over the years.
Josh:
I’ve always said Owen should run some kind of tour. He’d be perfect at it—doing a folklore tour during the holidays, like Geek Nation Tours does. He takes people to places around the world and tells them about the history and any sort of significant places in the location. If Owen did that, telling tales and stories about the places they’re visiting, to give it a sort of mythic feel with all the folklore and mythological history, it would be a really cool experience. Next time I know someone going to Wales, I’ll have to tell Owen in advance so he can show them around.
Phil:
Yeah, it would be really good, actually. While I was there, I did actually look up a model shop and thought, “I wonder if they have any Warhammer stuff?” And they did! I bought myself a little painting handle.
Josh:
What kind of one? I’ve never bought one before.
Phil:
I always make my own. So, I thought, yeah, I’ll push the boat out. Seven quid.
Josh:
Yeah, well, if you like champagne, then you’re going to have lots of fancy handles with that Blu Tack. I’ll just say, I’ve collected those over the years, and I’ve cut them in half and used them. I think I have so many now, I’ve had to throw some out, but I’ve kept my best ones. But apart from that, I’m glad you had a good, restful week away in Wales. But you’re here to talk about how you discovered the hobby, mate. So let’s lead into that and maybe talk a bit about yourself, where you’re from, and how you got into the hobby.
Phil:
Yeah, sure, sure. Okay, so anyway, I’m Phil, and most people in the hobby might know me from my Instagram handle because I paint quite a bit and post videos—Old Man Paints. I’ve been in the hobby since the mid-90s, or no, sorry, the mid-80s, around 1986 I reckon I got into it.
It was quite by accident because I had no interest in Dungeons and Dragons or Warhammer per se. But some of my mates from my hometown—when you’re about 14 or 15 and just mooching around with nothing to do—one of them discovered Dungeons and Dragons and asked if I wanted to come and play at his house. So we thought, yeah, sounds cool, we’ve heard of it, we’ve seen the film. So we went up there, and my mate Egg was the Dungeon Master, and all I can remember is a lot of arguments across the table between the Dungeon Master and the players. That turned me off it a bit, but one thing I did love about it was the little miniatures. I remember when we first started, we were each handed a miniature and told, “This is your avatar in the game; keep it safe. You can paint it up or whatever.” That was your character for the game, which I thought was totally ace.
I wasn’t a complete novice to miniature painting because, prior to that, I’d been into Tamiya models—those Japanese 1:32 scale models. I always loved painting those with Humbrol paints and making little dioramas. But when I saw this little lead figure, which I think was Boromir from the second edition of the Lord of the Rings figures, I was completely entranced by it.
Phil:
The next weekend we said, “Shall we go to Sheffield?”—which is the nearest city in England to where we lived. And we went to the Games Workshop, which was a shop I’d only ever walked past. When we first went in there, I was blown away. Fantastic cabinets full of figures, all painted up beautifully. I must have spent about an hour just looking at those.
There was a wall of blister packs with different figures, so many different types of creatures and stuff like that. Looking back now as a 50-year-old, I think, “Wow, why didn’t I buy more stuff back then?” because it was so cheap. But obviously, prices were relative, and that stuff was expensive back then. But yeah, that’s how I got into it.
Josh:
Nice, mate. That’s a great story. And I’m really glad you managed to go to the Games Workshop and discover more miniatures, getting deeper into the hobby.
Phil:
Yeah, exactly. Buying miniatures week after week, it became like a weekly pilgrimage. The object of my desire was always the cabinet.
The cabinet in Sheffield at that time was particularly good. Maybe I’m looking at it with rose-tinted glasses, but I’d honestly say it was one of the best cabinets I’d ever seen. Later, through the years, I went to different Games Workshops—Derby, Manchester, Nottingham—and I think only Nottingham’s was marginally better than Sheffield’s. I’d say Sheffield had fantastic painters back in those days, and it became my goal to get my figures into that cabinet.
Back then, Games Workshop enthusiasts could bring their figures into the shop, and the staff would put them in the cabinet for display with a little sign saying “painted by [your name].” So as a teenager, I was a bit ambitious, but I did manage it eventually.
There was a guy who worked there, and he was really encouraging. I’d keep bringing in my miniatures thinking, “This one’s going to make it into the cabinet.” But he’d look at it and say, “Nah, it’s not good enough, Phil. The boots are patchy, the colours are wrong, look at the face, look at the eyes.” He just kept pushing me to improve the figures until I finally got one in there. His name was Kenny Crow, and he was a fantastic painter for the time—better, in my opinion, than some of what we saw in White Dwarf. He was top-drawer.
When I first started, we were painting with Humbrol enamels, thinning the paint down, and the figures were very bland. Then Games Workshop launched a new range of acrylic paints—Titillating Pink, Bestial Brown, Skull White. I’m sure most people listening will remember some of those colours. Just opening those pots of paint was such a joy. Painting with them was much easier compared to Humbrol enamels. No shade to Humbrol, but the fact that you didn’t have to use thinners made it a lot better.
Josh:
Yeah, were they the same paint sets with those amazing Golden Demon covers and everything on them?
Phil:
Yeah, that’s right. I think the first paint set I had might have been the second one they released. The first one was called something like the Colour Paint Set, and the second one was the Monster Paint Set. That was the first one I ever bought. Then they brought out inks, and they came in little dropper bottles. I remember opening them and thinking, “This is game-changing.” You could do a wash with just a drop of water, and shading would appear instantly.
Josh:
Yeah, man. I remember being blown away by that. It seems silly now because we all take it for granted, but back then it was game-changing. For me, it was the same when I first discovered those paint sets. I could brush away my Tamiya acrylics and find something far less smelly and easier to use. It was game-changing for everybody.
I did notice they released a paint set before those ones. I’m trying to think of the artist who did the cover—was it Bob Naismith? He did all the art for those early paint sets.
Phil:
I think you’re right. I’m pretty sure the set you’re talking about had the Chaos Warrior on the cover, crushing a skeleton guy with his hammer. I’m pretty sure that was the paint set before the Bob Naismith-covered ones.
Josh:
Yeah, I think so too. It’s amazing how much you learn coming back into the hobby. There’s so much history that you weren’t aware of back in the day. In those days, the people making miniatures and setting up Games Workshop weren’t famous—they were just people doing a job. But now they’ve got cult-like status. There’s so much to learn about figures, paints, first editions, compendiums—it’s endless.
Phil:
Exactly. I’ve learned so much from others since returning to the hobby. Back then, nobody talked about the people behind the scenes, but now, with all these interviews of former Games Workshop employees, it’s fascinating.
Josh:
Mate, what are your other influences, do you think?
Phil:
Yeah, well, like I say, before I got into this stuff, I was always into science fiction and kind of action-war type stuff. So, you know, if you list the stuff of the 80s, it’s Action Man and Action Force. I don’t know if you had Action Force over there, but anything sci-fi like Blake’s 7 and Star Wars.
Josh:
Yeah, even from being a kid of about 10, I used to have those little green army men. I used to have hundreds of them, which I collected from friends, cousins, and wherever I could get them. I had this massive box, which I’d tip out on the lounge carpet, and I’d have wars behind the couch.
Then, I got a game for Christmas once from my mum and dad called Crossbows and Catapults. Have you heard of that?
Phil:
Sure have, mate, yeah.
Josh:
I think it was MB Games, and I had loads of fun playing that game on its own. Then I integrated it with my green army men wars by putting stronger elastic bands onto the catapults, so they became absolutely lethal. They fired these round puck things, like ice hockey pucks, didn’t they? And I’d fire them across the lounge, wiping out 20 army men at a time.
Phil:
That’s pretty neat. I started painting the army men too, and that progressed into Airfix planes, tanks, Tamiya models, Italeri, that sort of stuff, you know. So, I guess I’ve always been into that kind of thing. Through the teenage years, I also became aware of what I’d call counter-culture art, like Leonardo da Vinci’s anatomy drawings, or Iron Maiden’s heavy metal album covers—zombies, monsters, creatures, you know?
Josh:
Yeah, absolutely, mate. I remember all those days. I remember kids at my high school meticulously drawing the Iron Maiden logo on the back of their school bags.
Phil:
Yes, that’s it. At the time, anything related to heavy metal was totally thought of by the establishment as being a no-no. I think we all know better now, but I got into so much trouble for having Iron Maiden t-shirts or painting their logo on my jacket. Everyone was like, “You’re a Satanist,” and I was like, “No, I’m not!” I didn’t know anything about Satan. But I loved anything that was rebellious, just to thumb my nose at authority. So, Iron Maiden appeared everywhere. I loved World War II posters and that sort of stuff too.
Josh:
Yeah, nice, mate. So, what about comics? Did you get into comics during those days as well?
Phil:
Yeah, so I think, to be fair, I wasn’t really into the DC and Marvel stuff at the time. I was aware of it, but the storylines seemed a bit advanced for my brain. I was more into the drawings. I’d buy the comics just to look at how they were drawn, how each panel ran into the next. I loved the style where it bled from one cell to the next, where Batman or another hero would knock out a villain, and he’d fly across two or three panels.
I also got into more serious stuff like Boris Vallejo. He did fantasy paintings in oil. They sort of took their inspiration from… what’s the guy called who did Death Dealer? I forget his name now.
Josh:
Frazetta?
Phil:
Yes, Frank Frazetta! That’s the one. And then, when I was a kid, I found a Playboy magazine, and there was an artist being featured called Alberto Vargas. He did those beautiful 1950s-style pin-up girls, like the ones painted on World War II airplanes—Memphis Belle and that sort of thing.
Josh:
Right, well, Playboy’s got respect, mate, so don’t worry about that. I think it’s like an ordinary magazine now, isn’t it?
Phil:
I think it is these days, but at the time, it was risqué. But yeah, Vargas was an amazing artist.
Josh:
So, going back to miniatures, mate, you’re here to talk about how you discovered the hobby. What was the first White Dwarf magazine you bought?
Phil:
That’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot, and I’m not 100 percent sure. I reckon it might have been issue number 76. But I’m not entirely sure if that was my first one, or if I just remember it well. I definitely had that one, though. I also had number 84, which had an Ian Miller cover featuring Savage Orcs.
Those ones stick in my head. I’ve picked up quite a few over the years. But sometimes, it was the cover that made me buy it. I pretty much always bought it, but the cover got me excited. I think issue 102 was a great one, with Les Edwards’ Dark Future on the cover. That one sticks out.
Josh:
Yeah, some amazing artists back then. White Dwarf was quite something during those early days. You could tell they invested a lot into it. So, can you remember what other early influences shaped your hobby interests?
Phil:
Yeah, like I said, anything that was a bit counter-culture or rebellious appealed to me. I was really drawn to the Iron Maiden covers, to heavy metal in general, and to art that had that edge. Also, anything that was a little bit dark or mythological. Stuff like Conan the Barbarian, Excalibur, and Highlander. I had all those on VHS and watched them repeatedly.
Josh:
Oh, Highlander, yeah. Even something like Willow, which had dark undertones. Watching it again as an adult, you realise how much dark, occult stuff was in it.
Phil:
Exactly. It’s amazing to think we watched that stuff as kids, but it definitely had some darker themes.
Josh:
Yeah, totally. So, going back to your hobby journey, you mentioned your involvement in Golden Demon competitions?
Phil:
Yeah, that’s right. The guy at Sheffield Games Workshop, Kenny Crow, he told me about the Golden Demon competition. I had no idea what it was at the time. He explained that it was an event where you painted a figure, entered it into categories, and if you got through the heats, you’d go to Games Day to compete against the world’s best painters.
At the time, I thought I wasn’t in that league. But Kenny encouraged me, so I entered. I’d just bought the Skarloc’s Wood Elf Archers box set, and I decided to paint Skarloc himself for the competition. It was the best figure I’d ever painted at the time. I entered it, and to my surprise, I won the heat and got to go to Games Day.
Phil:
I entered Skarloc in the heat and won. I got a letter from Games Workshop saying, “Congratulations, you’ve won the heat with a single figure, and you’re going to Games Day.” That was amazing. My mates at school were blown away, saying, “Oh my God, you’re going to Games Day! What if you see John Blanche?” It was a big deal.
My dad said he would take me, but we didn’t have a car, so we had to go on the bus to Derby, and then we caught a train to my auntie’s place in Uttoxeter in Staffordshire. The next day, we took another train back to Derby for Games Day. My dad just mooched around the city all day while I was at the event.
Josh:
That’s amazing. What a hero your dad was!
Phil:
Yeah, he was. I remember I met John Blanche that day. I was walking down the main concourse, and I saw him coming towards me. He had his trademark cut-off denim jacket on. He was much younger back then, probably younger than I am now. I stopped him and said, “You’re John Blanche, aren’t you?” and he said, “Yes, I am.”
I didn’t have anything for him to sign, so he pulled an apple out of his pocket and signed it for me. I kept it for a while, but obviously, you can’t keep an apple forever!
Then, I asked him if he could help me get my figure photographed for the book they published every year. I couldn’t believe how cheeky I was to ask that, but he agreed. He took my figure out of the cabinet and had it photographed, and it’s in the Games Day book from 1989.
Josh:
Wow, that’s awesome! I used to have that book. I’ll have to hunt down a PDF of it and check out your miniature. It’d be great to see it in print.
Phil:
Yeah, it was pretty crazy. Although I need to clarify, I didn’t end up entering Skarloc at Games Day. A week before the event, I painted a Space Marine Scout and thought, “This is better than Skarloc.” So for some reason, I took the Scout to Games Day instead. It wasn’t as good as Skarloc, and I kick myself for it now. The Scout was the one that got photographed and put in the book.
To make matters worse, they also attributed another Eldar Scout to me, which I didn’t paint. I still feel guilty about that—someone out there didn’t get credit for their work.
Josh:
I can imagine! It must still rankle after all these years. Did anything else stand out from Games Day ’89?
Phil:
Yeah, there was this crazy game they were showcasing at Games Day, involving GobbledeGook, a goblin character from White Dwarf. The game involved these little coaster-like cards with goblin pictures on them. ‘Oi dats my leg‘ – There was a huge crowd around the table, and I didn’t really know what was happening.
I picked up one of the cards, thinking they were freebies. Then all these kids started staring at me, and a Games Workshop staffer came over and asked, “Did you take one of those cards?” I said, “Yeah, I thought they were free,” but they weren’t. I was so embarrassed!
Josh:
Oh man, I can imagine how awkward that must have been!
Phil:
Yeah, I wanted the ground to swallow me up! But overall, it was a great day. I got my picture in the book, I met John Blanche, and despite the little card mishap, it was a fantastic experience.
Josh:
Do you remember who won the Golden Demon that year?
Phil:
Good question! I think it might have been Steve Blunt. He had this amazing Nurgle Demon on a chariot with skeletons. It was incredible. I remember seeing it up close, and it was so smooth. It would still do well in today’s competitions.
Paited by Steve Bunt: Photo credit – Realm of Chaos
Josh:
Yeah, it’s incredible to think how far the hobby’s come. Speaking of painting, I’ve noticed a lot of new paint ranges coming out recently. What paints do you use these days? Are you still using some of the old Citadel paints, or have you moved on?
Phil:
I’ve got a bit of a mix. I’m not one of those paint collectors with racks of hundreds of paints. I have two small drawers—one for dropper bottles and one for Citadel pots. I’ve got a bit of nostalgia for the older stuff, but I mainly use Vallejo these days. Their model colour range is great for army colours—browns, leathers, silvers, gunmetals, and the like. I still use Citadel paints, but I don’t like the pots. They’re prone to drying out, and they knock over too easily.
Josh:
Yeah, the Citadel pots are notorious for that. I’ve moved on to Vallejo as well. Their dropper bottles are so much better, and the paint consistency is great. I’ve also tried some of the newer brands like Pro Acryl and Duncan Rhodes’ paints. They’re all really good.
Phil:
Yeah, I’ve heard good things about Duncan Rhodes’ range. I’m always tempted to try new paints, but I like mixing my own colours. If I need a certain shade of green, I’ll mix it myself rather than buying a specific pot. It keeps things interesting, and I’m not too worried if two orcs come out slightly different colours—that’s how it is in the real world!
Josh:
Exactly! I think keeping it simple and focusing on technique is the way to go. You don’t need thousands of paints. What about painting heroes, past or present? Who are some of your inspirations?
Phil:
Oh, there are so many! Back in the day, it was definitely Kenny Crow. He’s still a hero of mine. He pushed me to get better and gave me the confidence to keep going. John Blanche, of course, is a massive influence. His work in White Dwarf and his conversions were mind-blowing. I’d see his freehand Mona Lisa on a Minotaur’s chest and think, “How did he even do that?”
Minataur Conversion by John Blanche
There was also a guy at school named JC, who was kind of a rival. He was a great painter, even doing non-metallic metal back in the late ’80s, which was unheard of. He wasn’t very encouraging, always telling me my work wasn’t as good as his. But it spurred me on to improve. Sometimes, a bit of rivalry is good for motivation.
Josh:
Yeah, having a rival can definitely push you to improve. It’s good to have someone to compete against, even if it’s just friendly competition. Speaking of improvement, do you have any current hobby goals or aspirations?
Phil:
Yeah, I think just to keep going and keep improving. I want to grow my online community—get more Instagram followers, and maybe do more YouTube videos. I also want to finish my backlog of unpainted miniatures. It’s a long-term goal, but I’m getting there!
Josh:
Yeah, I think we all have a backlog! I’m in the same boat. But it’s nice to have a goal, even if it’s just to finish painting everything in the lead pile.
Phil:
Exactly. I’d like to leave behind something useful, too. I’ve written thousands of articles over the years, and I’d like to think some of them have been helpful. Maybe I’ll leave something behind for my daughter to enjoy or, who knows, maybe sell off someday!
Josh:
Yeah, it’s funny to think about that. I’ve been cataloguing my miniatures, so if something happens to me, my son will have an idea of what it’s all worth. It’s a bit grim to think about, but it’s important!
Phil:
Yeah, that’s definitely a good idea. I don’t want my family to just throw everything in the bin, thinking it’s junk!
Josh:
Exactly, mate. Well, Phil, thank you so much for your time today. It’s been a really interesting conversation, and I’m grateful you made this happen.
Phil:
Thank you, Josh. I’m really glad we finally managed to do this. And thanks again for everything you’ve done with the Crown of Command podcast. It’s been a great source of inspiration, and I know a lot of people really appreciate it.
Josh:
Thank you, mate. That’s very kind. I’m glad we connected through Instagram, and I look forward to seeing more of your work. Take care and have a great rest of your day.
Phil:
Thanks, Josh. You too. And good luck with your painting!
Josh:
Thanks, Phil. All the best!
https://embed.podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/oldmanpaints-phil/id1512960547?i=1000664095153
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