Citadel range date question

[Grumpygit]

Hello folks. Just a question on a detail relating to when Citadel Miniatures became officially related to Warhammer or more specifically, WFRP.

Is there a specific point in the range where the miniatures being released were officially intended for use with WFRP? I'm thinking along the lines of the C46 Townsfolk etc. Did these predate Warhammer?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Losteriksson]

They released a special miniature bundle in 1987 for Death on the Reik but I think most of the miniatures were already available and just repurposed.


http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=Death_On_The_Reik

 

[Citizen Sade]

FWIW, the first editions of WFB and WFRP were released in 1983 and 1986 respectively and early slotta townsfolk featured in second edition WFB scenario packs like Bloodbath at Orc’s Drift and Terror of the Lichemaster. Their narrative skirmish game approach makes sense considering GW’s roleplaying roots.

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Warhammer 1st Edition mentions Citadel C series codes in the Creature Lists, so that would be the first explicit linking of Citadels models to the Warhammer game, in 1983.

Other than in the specific flyers that came with the WFRP sets, I don't think Citadel ever marketed models as "for WFRP", rather than fantasy miniatures usable for whatever game you wanted to play.

 

[Losteriksson]

You also had Blood on the Streets which was released a year before WFRP. While it was supposed to be for 2nd edition WFB it felt very much like a roleplaying supplement. The miniature bundle offered for it were again repurposed Citadel miniatures that already existed

http://solegends.com/citscenarios/bloodonthestreets-01.htm

 

[Grumpygit]

Thank you for the above replies and information.

I began playing Warhammer in 1993 so I'm a little lighter on information from the 80s.

Can I ask, when Warhammer was initially released, was there an expectation that the then current citadel miniatures would apply to Warhammer going forward?

I've been spending some time examining the older catalogue entries and I just wondered what whether at those times there was more of a universal gaming system acceptance for all of the citadel models. I'm aware white dwarf covered many systems at that time.

 

[Zhu Bajie]

Can I ask, when Warhammer was initially released, was there an expectation that the then current citadel miniatures would apply to Warhammer going forward?

Gaming at the time was 100% miniatures agnostic - the idea that you have to use specific 'official' models from a certain manufacturer to play a specific game was laughably unthinkable. There were certainly licensed ranges - Citadel produced Spacefarers, Traveller and Runequest models before (and after) Warhammer was released, and Grenadier did official D&D models, but its lagely just a marketing thing - if you don't like Citadels Orcs, you could just use Minifigs or Grenadiers or whatever.

Much of Citadels Fantasy Tribes models are designed around the descriptions and arms and armaments of the AD&D Monster Manual - and those arms and armaments directly fed into Warhammer. One example the matriachal Dark Elves with their crossbows, bucklers and chainmail and riding giant lizards is all straight out of D&D and those design concepts still define that faction in Warhammer today. We get Chaos Beastmen because Citadel produced Runequest Broo etc. etc. The Fiend Factory range was specifically D&D monsters written for White Dwarf. Arguably the first 'original' Warhammer models not based on an earlier property are the Amazons and Slann, although there are kind of Aztec Frog-men in D&D as well.

 

[Grumpygit]

Can I ask, when Warhammer was initially released, was there an expectation that the then current citadel miniatures would apply to Warhammer going forward?

Gaming at the time was 100% miniatures agnostic - the idea that you have to use specific 'official' models from a certain manufacturer to play a specific game was laughably unthinkable. There were certainly licensed ranges - Citadel produced Spacefarers, Traveller and Runequest models before (and after) Warhammer was released, and Grenadier did official D&D models, but its lagely just a marketing thing - if you don't like Citadels Orcs, you could just use Minifigs or Grenadiers or whatever.

Much of Citadels Fantasy Tribes models are designed around the descriptions and arms and armaments of the AD&D Monster Manual - and those arms and armaments directly fed into Warhammer. One example the matriachal Dark Elves with their crossbows, bucklers and chainmail and riding giant lizards is all straight out of D&D and those design concepts still define that faction in Warhammer today. We get Chaos Beastmen because Citadel produced Runequest Broo etc. etc. The Fiend Factory range was specifically D&D monsters written for White Dwarf. Arguably the first 'original' Warhammer models not based on an earlier property are the Amazons and Slann, although there are kind of Aztec Frog-men in D&D as well.

Fantastic reply. Intriguing snd an eye opener indeed. Many thanks

 

[Citizen Sade]

You might want to check out the interview with designer Rick Priestley on the Grognardia blog (here). It covers Citadel In the earlies, Bryan Ansell and the creation of WFB.

A couple of choice snippets from it:

Bryan was keen on selling figures in "regiments" rather than just the odd one or two that folks were ordering for playing Dungeons & Dragons and other role-playing games. In that sense, the game was initially conceived as a promotional venture – but Warhammer has always existed to "sell" the models, as it continues to do to this day.

Bryan came up with a basic brief for what he wanted – stressing that it had to be a game youngsters could play using ordinary dice, that it had to have rules for everything we made, and it had to have a token "role-playing" element because at that time role-playing was extremely hot.