chunky monky glue

ManicMan

ManicMan

Lord
well.. I don't know if there is a reason but this hasn't really happened with wood glue to me in the past but it appears my Wood glue is going off..

this is 'everbuild' D4 woodglue which I mostly use for basing stuff (cause the PVA I kept having problems with either shrinking or just not holding to the plastic) or well, for gluing wood. claims to have a 6 month shelf life from date it is made, which appears to be about this time in 2024. problem is, there is still a fair bit left and it's going a bit chunky.

Looking online, people say "this means the glue has gone off, bin it".. that's a huge waste.. some say "You can add some water to it but it will reduce it's hold a bit" which is no problem cause it's meant to be high strength and really, I don't use it for stuff which is under alot of pressure. Looking at what is SOME of the ingredients, it looks like alcohol like iso might be a better thing to add a touch of then water but I'm not sure.. hell, some seam to say just to heat it up for a while and shake..

so.. with sooo much advice which some of it is probably wrong, and pretty much all doesn't really apply cause.. They are talking about gluing tables and chairs with some kinda load bearing, and I'm talking about gluing tea and paper to plastic and some wood to wood in pretty much little stress ways to make buildings and stuff, I thought I would ask people who are in the right area to have experiences of it for such uses.

apart from "Buy less next time" which sometimes it doesn't come in smaller bottles, any ideas?
 
Are there any chemical engineers in the group? I keep having similar questions too.

All I can think is to give it your best shot. If it's going to get binned unless you can revive it, you've nothing to lose.

I guess the water has the least chance of negatively affecting any other chemicals in there?
 
it makes a big deal about using water to clean it up, and after 7 days it'll be kinda water proof, so water should atleast thin it out
 
Assuming it's still a PVA at heart then you might get a bit more life by adding some water, but I assume it'll probably have some additional additives (being a "wood glue") to get the polymers to more robustly bond than with standard PVA (although with cellulose based surfaces you do get chemical bonding with the hydroxyl groups) by cross linking them and it might well be these extras that have a more limited shelf life and they are doing their job cross bonding the glue anyway. The data sheet on the glue doesn't mention much, the other chemicals mentioned are all fairly common biocides, so presumably there to stop the glue throwing a party with the bugs.

You could I guess if small bottles are not available or stupidly priced try decanting some into other air tight containers - and minimise the exposure. Generally these kinds of glues are pretty standard and they are just waiting for the carrier (which would seem to be water in this case) to evaporate off leaving a microscopic mess of entangled polymer chains stuck in all the nooks and crannies of the surfaces.

Give it a try! As the Serene one says, it'll end up binned so have a play. Worst case you'll find it just doesn't stick much after the meddling! I mean that could be a pretty bad worst case depending on the scenario, but you've already said you're not building gaming tables with the stuff!

The Serene Badger said:
Are there any chemical engineers in the group? I keep having similar questions too.
Click to expand...
I know we could do with one, my chemistry only goes to A-Level and that was rather a long time ago now. You'd think a nice geeky hobby like this would attract some nice scientist brains, although maybe the quantity of brain hungry zombies in the literature and artwork makes them cautious! :)
 
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looking online (cause I'm in a different room and can't be arsed to get the bottle out).. "An industrial grade D4 wood adhesive based on hybrid resin technology" is on that datasheet I can find.. so.. that resin base is a bit of an unknown factor when trying to sort it out..

I think I'll have to just pour some into a old paint pot and try something out to see what happens..

My chemistry didn't even go to GSCE cause the school was.. ugh.. I was never a big hater of schools but best I can say is that secondary school was average. I had a number of problems which they said would be dealt with but wasn't (like getting some help with things that never appeared) and I didn't have many friends and no-one seamed to be interested in miniature gaming or anything.. I did try to kinda join a couple of things, not out of peer pressure but in order to try to learn and have some fun but they turned out pointless and not much happened.. and I was mostly ignored anyway like I was meant to be on this stupid student council thing but they couldn't be bothered to tell me when the meetings were most of the time.. College was then MUCH better and I was much happier thought got fed up with how things were after three years and kinda had problems start after that ¬_¬ (When they say "This year, you will learn this, this, and that" and they don't even get around to them by the end, it's pointless to me.)

I know the difference between H20 and H2S04 though (something which would be sense when I get my next adventure game book audio uploaded.)

anyway.. I'll see about some glue testing this week
 
Good luck Manic, it's all data for the next time if it doesn't work.

Eric, my A-level chemistry has mostly faded away. I went the biology route. Cleared out mum mum's attic the other day and couldn't understand half the notes from my undergrad. Though it has been 25 years..
 
Okay, first thing. kinda pored some glue (very chunky) into a old paint pot. I poured a bit of water into this and gave it a damn good shake.. IT all mixed together pretty well but looks like too much water.. oh well. Haven't tried it but want to let it sit 24 or so hours to see what happens.. Does it separate or not.
 
been.. a few days ^_^ water-glue mixture hasn't separated or anything so that's good. Still looks like it's too wet. Tried it while basing and not too bad BUT not as strong, I think because of the water amount. The hold wasn't TOO bad but.. yeah.. too much water. second test needs less water..

kinda forgot how much I put in though ^_^;
 
maybe, but then it would be even harder to know how much water I added ^_^

just did a new batch with what I think was much less water. really chunky going into the pot (as in needed to partly cut the glue as it's like thick porridge right now), gave it a good shake and it's not bad. smooth, not too watery. Trying it out now
 
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