Chaos Army Skirmish units.

[Goblinlee]

This is a question regarding the role of Skirmish troops in Chaos Armies in Warhammer Fantasy Battle 3rd Edition.

I have been looking at the Chaos Army list in Warhammer Armies, and the specific army lists of the Chaos Powers in Slaves to Darkness and The Lost and the Damned and I cannot find and reference to any Chaos armies being allowed to use skirmisher troop types. In the other army entries in Warhammer Armies there is a list at the rear of the list detailing which units can skirmish. However this is not present in any of the Chaos lists.
I can only assume that either Chaos armies cannot employ Skirmishers or that they can (if armed with missile weapons) but it was either left out in error or assumed that players would just use what missile troops they wanted as skirmishers.

There was an errata in White Dwarf #107 (I think), but I no longer have that copy to due it being damaged some years ago.

If anyone can shed any light on this quandary I would be very pleased.

Thank you

 

[Grumdril]

Warhammer Armies errata was in WD108, and while it fixes various other bits of the chaos list such as the Marauder and Warrior horse profiles there's still no mention of skirmishers. So if you'd been entering a WFB tournament circa 1988 you'd have been out of luck

But since this is Oldhammer I'd say fair enough with whatever missile troops you have.

Although conversely you might feel that skirmishing is a bit too subtle for chaos armies. I'm particularly fond of the advise in Ravening Hordes - "... carefully calculate the enemy's strongest troops, move towards them, charge them and beat them to death. Then hammer the remainder of the army...". Although I never have won a battle as chaos...

Paul / Grumdril

 

[Snickit]

Did the errata manage to let anyone use Dwarf Allies or did that Ally List remain redundant?

 

[Goblinlee]

Thank you Paul/Grumdril, it's a very good point on Chaos armies not really being too subtle.

I thought that given the skrimish nature of the Chaos Warbands in Slave to Darkness perhaps some might of the correct mental disposition to skirmish. Also, Skirmishers can be sneaky, a trait that would appeal to some followers of Chaos.

My main reason for asking about Chaos Skirmishers was because I was building my Chaos Nippon army and using the Chaos list. As I am using Thugs with Longbows I wondered if they could Skirmish as they had missile weapons, but you're right in that as it's Oldhammer there is a certain flexablity, and I will not be playing any league games in 3rd Edition. Any gaming will be with friends and they will be aware of the archers, and probably more concerned about the Samurai Hero riding a Wyvern!

@ Snickit. In all the years of reading Warhammer Armies I had never noticed that no one could use the Dwarf Ally list!
If I recall correctly the errata in WD # 108 does'nt mention the Dwarf Allies. I would check,but that is the one White Dwarf from that era I no longer own as it was damaged. Might have to have a little hunt on e-bay later

 

[Snickit]

@ Snickit. In all the years of reading Warhammer Armies I had never noticed that no one could use the Dwarf Ally list!
If I recall correctly the errata in WD # 108 does'nt mention the Dwarf Allies. I would check,but that is the one White Dwarf from that era I no longer own as it was damaged. Might have to have a little hunt on e-bay later

Logic dictates that both Oldworlder Human armies can take them and there's always the rule of thumb that if Dwarfs can have "them" as allies then "they" can take Dwarfs.

 

[Goblinlee]

That makes perfect sense

 

[lenihan]

@ Snickit. In all the years of reading Warhammer Armies I had never noticed that no one could use the Dwarf Ally list!
If I recall correctly the errata in WD # 108 does'nt mention the Dwarf Allies. I would check,but that is the one White Dwarf from that era I no longer own as it was damaged. Might have to have a little hunt on e-bay later

Logic dictates that both Oldworlder Human armies can take them and there's always the rule of thumb that if Dwarfs can have "them" as allies then "they" can take Dwarfs.

Dwarves are neutral, so I can see dwarf mercenaries turning out for all sorts - except for poncy elves (who wouldn't lower themselves to hiring them anyway) and greenskins. No reason they wouldn't ally themselves to more chaotic forces... that's probably how chaos dwarves get born...

 

[Snickit]

@ Snickit. In all the years of reading Warhammer Armies I had never noticed that no one could use the Dwarf Ally list!
If I recall correctly the errata in WD # 108 does'nt mention the Dwarf Allies. I would check,but that is the one White Dwarf from that era I no longer own as it was damaged. Might have to have a little hunt on e-bay later

Logic dictates that both Oldworlder Human armies can take them and there's always the rule of thumb that if Dwarfs can have "them" as allies then "they" can take Dwarfs.

Dwarves are neutral, so I can see dwarf mercenaries turning out for all sorts - except for poncy elves (who wouldn't lower themselves to hiring them anyway) and greenskins. No reason they wouldn't ally themselves to more chaotic forces... that's probably how chaos dwarves get born...

In my head Dwarfs are generally Good (or at least on the Good side of Neutral so kind of Good Neutral like you can have North East) so I don't see them allying with Evil or Chaotic. As said, this is merely my own personal thoughts on Dwarfs and certainly not me saying "they must be", just how they're presented by the Armies book. I would see any Dwarfs allying with anything Evil to be Evil (maybe not Chaotic but Evil) and in fact Evil Dwarfs do appeal to me (snigger snigger), and I'm starting to feel a new army coming on, Evil (not Chaotic) Dwarfs.

 

[Goblinlee]

Concerning the Dwarves, I always thought of them as neutral, but leaning to the good side of neutral, despite thier greed for gold and bad temper. However as far as allying goes I thuoght they are more motivated by racial factors rather than thier neutral alignment.
A true neutral will not mind either evil or good, but dwarves won't ally with Goblinoids or Elves due to race not alignment, but might ally with Good or Evil Humans as they have no real problem (or axe to grind perhaps? ) against Humanity as a whole.

In White Dwarf #96 you even have a Dwarf working with a Slann army .

 

[Erny]

As a kid I went into my local GW with a burning question about who could take dwarf allies. The wiry ginger metal head behind the painting table didn't believe me, looked it up and told me to take mercenaries. I was sure they were going to sort it out for me. Maybe we could get Mr. Priestley to pass comment and for completeness tell us what he had meant to do with the list cause that one has been nagging at me for twenty something years. I know it doesn't matter, we can give them to whoever we like, indeed we don't even need the lists its just...you know..just..important.


Really bloody important.

 

[Vyper]

Warhammer Armies errata was in WD108, and while it fixes various other bits of the chaos list such as the Marauder and Warrior horse profiles there's still no mention of skirmishers.

What were the fixes, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Grumdril]

The Warhammer Armies errata in WD108 covered -

p5. Incorrectly says that characters pay the basic cost for equipment, actually they pay standard cost for their race (e.g. minotaur characters pay 4x cost)

Points out that in several places the text refers to unit magicians where it should say musicians...

Corrections to profiles / points costs for dark elves, beastmen shamans, skaven and mounted chaos warriors / marauders (i.e. the warhorse adds its extra attack at its own WS, not the WS of its rider!)

Points costs for warpstone charms (25 pts)

p159. Norse dwarf berserkers are berserkers, not just subject to frenzy