Bretonnia vs the Empire?

[ManicMan]

Okay.. Just what is the difference between the Empire and Bretonnia? as my understanding goes, it's basically Bretonnia is more late Medieval Briton where the Empire is a collection of places but more European maybe, as they are the big feather boys.

But some of the Empire ones don't have to be like that.. and Probebly some Bretonnia ones can have the feathers.. Other then that.. erm.. the Empire had alot of do with Sigmar as there emperor till his death then they just have his Hammer (or what they claim is) [Note, I don't know when the Warhammer logo hammer became Sigmar's hammer, but when I was young, I always felt the hammer in question was held by the Dwarfs for some reason.. Just seamed more Dwarfy to me]

It looks like through the years, they often had the figure pull double duty and all so.. it just seams very much... what the hell is the difference?

 

[KingOfTheLeadPile]

culture and looks

I think of Bretonnia looking like medieval, and I also felt their culture/politics are also vaguely medieval.

Empire is a bit later, more like 30 years war or so, where you have a merchant class with some political power etc. Also they have gunpowder, which the Bretonnians don't have.

And different religions, Lady of the Lave vs. Sigmar and some other gods.

All of the above very abbreviated.

 

[ManicMan]

fair enough.. but then while that is still medieval, 30 years war was.. 1600s.. first use of gunpowder in British war was 1300s. When you think, The Black Adder (which was the name of the first series) was set between the points in the latte 1400s..Oh and going via 3ed (and 4ed to a degree), Bretonnians have Cannons.

But yeah, I would go with earlier medieval though Citadel used the same figures for both.
As i'm rechecking it, looking at what the Armies book says for 3ed.. Bretonnian armies have a larger contrast between nobility and peasants and are very much stuffy egostical knights

 

[Geroak II]

A whole lot. Just because both are humans doesn't mean there's no differences.

'Knights of the round table meets medieval France' is how I'd describe bretonnia. For knights it's all about chivalry, honour, not using gunpowder weapons and occasionally kicking peasants around. For peasants it's feodal system, serfdom and being kicked around.

Empire is fantasy version of Holy Roman Empire from renaissance. Flamboyant clothes and extravagant codpieces are directly taken from landsknechts.

Major differences between the two are Empire's progressive inventions and wizards being more accepted (I think brets don't really like them that much?). In short, Bretonnians live further back in our real world history and also want to stay that way, all acting as if there's no armour-piercing projectiles around.

 

[KingOfTheLeadPile]

Bretonnian magic changed. In 3rd ed they just had wizards, in 4th or 5th ed it started to change to male and female youngsters showing an affinity to magic use being taken away (to the lady...?), but only the females returning, thus having only female wizards for bretonnia.

 

[ManicMan]

A whole lot. Just because both are humans doesn't mean there's no differences.

Barbarians are completely different and they are mostly humans ^_^ it's just how soo many figures were the same or could just be the same ones with very little difference.

though one thing I would say, Empire (3ed armies book) says they are far more diverse in styles of clothing and stuff..

Don't know the 4ed version of Bretonnian's..

 

[Geroak II]

Bretonnian magic changed. In 3rd ed they just had wizards, in 4th or 5th ed it started to change to male and female youngsters showing an affinity to magic use being taken away (to the lady...?), but only the females returning, thus having only female wizards for bretonnia.

Haven't read all that much lore of bretonnians so I take your word on it.

I get what you mean ManicMan. If we are talking about when bretonnians actually got their first miniatures then it's quite some time away from when the empire got that Holy Roman Empire -vibe going on.
Sculpting-wise those old bretonnians however seem to be more accurate to history with their medieval style gear; all those waffenrocks, aketons, pot helms, kettle hats and cervellieres really show that Perrys love history. Those bretonnians actually have more distinct look to me than empire minis of that era. Empire miniatures from back then have gear that looks both from more later period of history and also more fantasy-like.
But I definitely get what you say them looking very similar - all four of these would work nicely as bretonnians, yet two of them are actually empire knights:

 

[ManicMan]

Probably down to the whole 'wargame with your collection of figures we already make' which was the original Warhammer thing. (On a side note, for my Empire army, I'm thinking I finally have a use for the Limited Metal re-issue of Nick Bibby's NB2 Dragon.. the Rider is close enough to be a General though I'm wondering about the saddle placement.. but that's for another time)

 

[Fimm McCool]

The Perry twins liked sculpting historical figures. These spanned different periods of history and so they got clustered into 'Empire' (Germanic late medieval), 'Bretonnia' (early medieval French), 'Tilea' (Renaissance Italy), 'Estalia' (16-17th century Spain) etc. wherever the catalogue producer thought they fitted. These didn't start getting firmed up and 'designed' until 4th when the look of the Empire was codified and the others were mostly forgotten about. When Bretonnians came back in 5th they bigged up the Bretonic/Arthurian/Chivalric myth aspect to make them a different flavour.

 

[Geroak II]

The Perry twins liked sculpting historical figures.

Yep, and still do.
Their attention to detail and grounding miniatures by mixing in real world armours, weapons etc. are major factors for me to consider them the two best sculptors ever worked for GW.

 

[ManicMan]

Yep, and still do.
Their attention to detail and grounding miniatures by mixing in real world armours, weapons etc. are major factors for me to consider them the two best sculptors ever worked for GW.

yep. I think some of there stuff is a bit more... modern but still good and great to pick up if need such things ^_^

 

[twisted moon]

in wfrp1, which was being written in parallel with wfb3, there's quite a lot of immediately pre-revoluntionary imagery for bretonnia.