Battlefleet Gothic in 1989?

Eric

Eric

Administrator
Okay so obviously there was some earlier game I'm unaware of ... flipping through WD120 (1989) and I noticed on the advert for a store opening this:
battle-fleet-gothic.jpg
Given that's about ten years before the version I'm familiar with came out I was wondering what it was ... Anyhow here able to enlighten me?
 
Apparently it was some super advanced space combat game.

Space Fleet

I'm currently loving Space Fleet a lot. Some might say too much... This is reflected in me posting three blog posts in two days about it. What a fool I am. But if you wish to join me on this trip down memory lane, you can check out my blog entries here: The first is general ruminations on the...
forum.oldhammer.org forum.oldhammer.org
There's actually a further layer to the game's history. I playtested the 'original' BFG in about 1990, prior to SpaceFleet being released, when I was working at GW.

The rules were incredibly complex, and involved lateral thrust, and protractors(!), from memory. I helped run a demo game of it at the Nottingham store. The version released in 1999 bore little to no relation to the original.
Click to expand...
 
okay.. I can help with you with that.. kinda ^_^

Space Fleet, released around 1991 as a bit of a high point with Heroquest/Advanced & Space Crusade/Advanced, but also with some of the cheap 'reuse the models with cheap new card bits', they worked on and released 'Space Fleet'.. However, the ORIGINAL Space Fleet, was going to be called 'battlefleet Gothic', party a pun on Battlestar Galactic (the decent show, not the modern crap) and the gothical style for some ships. They had released Space Ships for.. I forget what game before, so it wasn't completely new for Citadel.. In WD 119, there is an advert with the boxart for 'BattleFleet Gothic' and as you can see, that is either the final or sketch before paint version of Space Fleet's boxart.

at some point around the time between then and the final release, someone decided it was a bit of a crap name since most of the ships weren't gothical style (only KINDA applys to the Space Marines) and they wanted a more catchy name 'Space Fleet' is quick and simple and does what it says on the box.. again, see 'HeroQuest', 'Space Crusade', 'Space Hulk' and even 'Battle Masters'.

Game is.. not a huge hit but popular enough.. There are a bunch of nice metal ships and later some plastics. It was Jervis Johnson and Andy Jones who designed it.

Later on, they wanna go back to try the idea, basically still a space version of Man-o-war really, and kinda use the ideas from it to have Andy Chambers make 'Battlefleet Gothic'.. it's not unusual for people to like names and try to use them (as a Transformers Fan, I can point out that Marvel (and Hasbro) reused the one characters name 'Megatron' for the Transformers line, both G.I.Joe and Transformers had a 'Shockwave', and they loved the name 'Fortress Maximus' that it was the third time they tried to use it that it applied (the first try became Omega Supreme, the Second time became Metroplex).

If I remember right.. like the first, BfG wasn't a big hit but since they have tried to bring it back.. don't think it's a big hit these days either..

Not saying the game play is much the same between Space Fleet, BattleFleet Gothic and Man-o-war but.. it's the same idea.. big ship combat. kinda the same line as Space Marine/Epic.

OH: Something I forgot.. in the small preview in 119, it says the game was designed by Richard Halliwell, yet when Space Fleet came out, it wasn't credited to him at all. so.. they probebly decided to go a slightly different route and got Johnson and Jones to redesign it..
 
The original unreleased Battlefleet Gothic was much more complicated and simulationist than Space Fleet. I guess it's to Space Fleet what Confrontation is to Necromunda.
 
probably. haven't seen the rules as they weren't released and 30+ year old memories of people who did alot.

alot of games are normally streamlined before final release.
 
Thanks both, I shall have to go and get 119 out and have a look at the feature. So essentially they were giving away three copies of Space Fleet, but at that point it still had it's working name so to speak. Interesting.

I never did get Space Fleet, although I have a set of the plastic ships and funky bases in the cupboard (maybe they were a giveaway at some point?). Paul is planning on running a game at BOYL next year, which sounds very cool. If I remember correctly the box lid had a grid in it to roll your dice or something like that?

I did get a large chaos fleet for the later Battlefleet Gothic, but I parted with a lot of that a few years ago. I never liked it quite as much as Man'O'War - which I absolutely loved. These days for my space combat fix I like War Rocket from Hydra Miniatures. Which hits my Dan Dare / Flash Gordon nostalgia spot nicely!
 
If any of you haven't seen this, I recently found this very useful.
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Almost forgot, yes, I'am looking to run a game of Space Fleet at next years BOYL, one complication I don't have a Imperial Fleet! Can anybody help please?

Paul / Golgfag1
 
Last edited:
Thanks Paul, that video was very informative, particularly about the cover art. I think I've seen a few of their other videos, the style certainly seemed familiar.

For the curious here are the promo pages from White Dwarf 119.
battle-fleet-gothic-wd119-a.jpgbattle-fleet-gothic-wd119-b.jpg
 
I do wonder if any of the issues after 120 did make a comment about the fact that 'Battlefleet Gothic' was even announced as a prize, yet it was 2 years before it finally came out and had a name change by that point..
 
ManicMan said:
I do wonder if any of the issues after 120 did make a comment about the fact that 'Battlefleet Gothic' was even announced as a prize, yet it was 2 years before it finally came out and had a name change by that point..
Click to expand...
It would be funny if three people actually received a printout of rules XD .
 
okay.. for some reason.. this is starting to bother me.. Lets review:
WD 120: Advert for a Grand Openning day of there Torquay store on December 9th 1989. One of the things you can win is one of 3 copies of Battlefleet Gothic.. when the game finally came to market (as Space Fleet) it was 1991..

in 122 (Feburary 1990), it gives a VERY brief account that the grand opening was very successful.. that's it..

going back.. what I can.. I can't see much comment.. or in fact, anything on it.. Advanced HeroQuest, Space Hulk and Confrontation all get information and updates as they are working on them to hype them up.. and for them to give (or atleast say) they'll give copies as a prize normally means they are going into production.. very weird to me.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if it was even more complex than Confrontation and at last moment someone realised it would be unplayable for average player.
 
WD #130 (October 1990) says John Blanche has been busy with some projects including concept art for Battlefleet Gothic. So still with that name and.. meant to have already been given out as prizes for the Torquay shop Openning.

WD #138 (June 1991) we now have news that Spacefleet is about to be released. "Spacefleet is the first in a new series of games designed to introduce people to the hobby" (yeah.. basically Heroquest, Space Crusade, Space Hulk but without MB).. "The games all contain plastic Citadel Miniatures, playing board, counters and other components, a simple rules sheet and a cunning bowlid combat tray.". "As it happens, however, the SpaceFleet system can easily be developed into a more sophisticated tactical game and Jervis Johnson has been working on a set of advanced rules which do just that. These rules will be appearing in White Dwarf at the same time as the game Appears in Shops." Which happened to be the following issue, #139.
 
So they changed it from a super complex grognard game to introductory game within these two years. There must have been some shift in boxed game design philosophy. Maybe even driven by the playtests of BFG (1989) itself.
 
hard to really say how much it changed (grognard?) because like i said, they released them 'advanced rules' in WD so.. maybe they just split it up. Like how for 4Ed WFB and 2Ed 40K, they split up the magic side to have basic rules in the main core book, but the more fancy/advanced stuff on there own.. personally, that's a good thing (like how in Rogue Trader and i think 3Ed WFB (maybe 2ed as well) you had the army list but then they also did 'expanded' ones before changed to have army books.

If it wasn't for the fact he is dead, Richard Halliwell would be a good person to try to ask as he was stated as the designer for the original Battlefleet Gothic...
 
you missed the tm ^_^ Ouji board is a.. I think it's not Hasbro.. It was board game created to talk to.. I think it was your inner self.. then they decided to claim it talked to house spirits, then the idiots decided 'Ghosts!' cause... they would either jump on the ghost bandwagon or Religion.. which is kinda the same thing (seriously.. if 'Ghosts' to be real, you have to accept a form of Religion..)

always seamed like a very dull game to me.. no miniatures to paint... very rare for me to have any interest in a board game without miniatures (though there are some.. though that said, there is one I got recently (it's a free card game based on a great video game in a series) which.. hehe.. meant to use 'tokens' for the players.. screw that, Miniatures.. Got one half painted after customising it but.. not great ^_^;

.. okay.. side tracked a bit there..
 
As a last little back on track ;) addendum there was a bit in Talking Miniatures in the Andy Chambers interview that mentioned the early unreleased version (but not necessarily the one advertised which would seem to be Space Fleet, by another name). Anyhow here is the section for reference:

Andy Chambers said:
And Hal was actually working on his spaceships in 40K game, which was called Battlefleet Gothic even back then.
Click to expand...
Robin Dews said:
Yes, I also remember playing that with him. He was working with some kind of vector movement mechanic, on a grid, so the ships kept sliding around with mass and momentum.
Click to expand...
Andy Chambers said:
That's right, yeah. But sadly, it didn't play very well....
Click to expand...
Robin Dews said:
I seem to remember that the ships kept flying off the end of the table because they had too much momentum to be able to turn.
Click to expand...
Andy Chambers said:
And that's the problem you always get with vector mechanics.
Click to expand...
 
EricF said:
As a last little back on track ;) addendum there was a bit in Talking Miniatures in the Andy Chambers interview that mentioned the early unreleased version (but not necessarily the one advertised which would seem to be Space Fleet, by another name). Anyhow here is the section for reference:
Click to expand...
So just like I thought basing on that comment in leadplague blog.

Vector movement sounds great.

So, basically it was on Confontation level of realism. It's sort of interesting how there was a part of GW that was really interesting in fantasy realism. Like of course it's the only way that really makes sense, it's no different than drawing a fantasy drawing respecting the rules of lightening and perspective and anatomy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top